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Thread: Denon DL 103 Pro

  1. #71
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Vancouver, BC

    Posts: 21
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svend N View Post
    Steve, do your caps also increase overall cart/headshell weight enough so that lighter tonearms like the rb300 work better with the 103?
    Svend, The cap weighs roughly 3.5 grams. So, yes it will allow more arms to work with the cart. The Cap with Cart weighs about 12 grams, the EM of a RB300 is 11.5, so it should put the resonant frequency around 10-11 Hz.

    In prototyping the Cap, I worked very hard at using brass in stead of aluminum. However, I just couldn't get the weight down enough for it to be reliable. When they get too heavy, the life just gets sucked out of the sound.

  2. #72
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 535
    I'm Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Alex,



    Different flavours, mate. The Zu is very good, but overall will be a bit more 'hi-fi sounding' [etched and crisp] against the 103 Pro's more fluid and mellifluous musical presentation. Depends on what you're looking for.

    If were me, I'd go for the Pro, plus one of Steve's excellent body caps, and then bask in vinyl heaven!

    Marco.
    Never a truer word quoted. Not the most articulate cartridge ever, but certainly the most musical. At the end of the day it is about what does it for you personally.

    I would try it without the body cap... but thatís me! As Marco says.....bask in vinyl heaven!!!

    I have tried many high end cartridges, many better the Denon Pro for So called Hi-Fi.... but none for shear enjoyment.

    Happy days!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  3. #73
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Ontario, Canada

    Posts: 570
    I'm Svend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    Svend, The cap weighs roughly 3.5 grams. So, yes it will allow more arms to work with the cart. The Cap with Cart weighs about 12 grams, the EM of a RB300 is 11.5, so it should put the resonant frequency around 10-11 Hz.

    In prototyping the Cap, I worked very hard at using brass in stead of aluminum. However, I just couldn't get the weight down enough for it to be reliable. When they get too heavy, the life just gets sucked out of the sound.
    Thanks Steve - very helpful reply. You know, all this talk about the 103 is really making me want to try one myself and hear what all the fuss is about. Once I get my second system set up, that might just be a fun thing to play with.

  4. #74
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Vancouver, BC

    Posts: 21
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svend N View Post
    Thanks Steve - very helpful reply. You know, all this talk about the 103 is really making me want to try one myself and hear what all the fuss is about. Once I get my second system set up, that might just be a fun thing to play with.
    As I mentioned to Alex last night, I always come back to the DL103/r... I've seriously demo'ed about a dozen carts over the past decade: entry level $$$ like Koetsu and Shelter; vintage models like the Grace F9 and Garret Bros; and many other production models. I always came back to the DL103 (my other 'go to' cart is the Audio Technica AT150ANV (MLX will do in a pinch)).

    I'll be starting a Trade account for the Body Caps. I will certainly welcome and encourage general DL103 threads.

  5. #75
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,105
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Alex,



    Different flavours, mate. The Zu is very good, but overall will be a bit more 'hi-fi sounding' [etched and crisp] against the 103 Pro's more fluid and mellifluous musical presentation. Depends on what you're looking for.

    If were me, I'd go for the Pro, plus one of Steve's excellent body caps, and then bask in vinyl heaven!

    Marco.
    Thanks Marco. I'll be test driving Steve's cap tonight, and will report back.

    Yes, I prefer more musical, rather than hi fi sounding presentation. So I'm going for the PRO!

    P.S. I have disengaged the spring in my Rega RB300 and already the sound cleared up. I should probably roll up my sleeves and try to remove the spring altogether; people claim that even when disengaged, the spring still vibrates and is interfering with the tonearm. Any comments on this?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  6. #76
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,105
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    Never a truer word quoted. Not the most articulate cartridge ever, but certainly the most musical. At the end of the day it is about what does it for you personally.

    I would try it without the body cap... but that’s me! As Marco says.....bask in vinyl heaven!!!

    I have tried many high end cartridges, many better the Denon Pro for So called Hi-Fi.... but none for shear enjoyment.

    Happy days!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    To my knowledge, the only two serious complaints about DL-103 are spherical stylus and plastic body. Otherwise, where else can you buy LOMC that goes up to 45 kHz for $250.00?

    I'm expecting with Steve's caps that the issue with flimsy plastic body should be minimized, if not tamed. Steve demoed to me last night how tightly DL-103 snuggles once placed inside the cap, so I can imagine that such solution must result in improved tracking.

    As for re-tipping the stylus, I hear what Marco is saying, there is a chance that messing with the manufacturer's model may alter the very character of the cartridge. Obviously, the only way for Denon to keep such fabulous product at such insanely low price point was to cut corners on the body and on the stylus. Everything else about that cartridge appears first class.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  7. #77
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,248
    I'm Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    To my knowledge, the only two serious complaints about DL-103 are spherical stylus and plastic body. Otherwise, where else can you buy LOMC that goes up to 45 kHz for $250.00?

    I'm expecting with Steve's caps that the issue with flimsy plastic body should be minimized, if not tamed. Steve demoed to me last night how tightly DL-103 snuggles once placed inside the cap, so I can imagine that such solution must result in improved tracking.

    As for re-tipping the stylus, I hear what Marco is saying, there is a chance that messing with the manufacturer's model may alter the very character of the cartridge. Obviously, the only way for Denon to keep such fabulous product at such insanely low price point was to cut corners on the body and on the stylus. Everything else about that cartridge appears first class.
    I'm with Marco on this one. The spherical is part of the cartridge's character. Bugger around with it and in my opinion you stand a far higher chance of ruining it than improving it. I don't see the spherical stylus on the 103 as 'corner' cutting. Rather, it is what it is. Denon themselves have issued versions with improved bodies, there I do think there's a possible improvement. I had a 103 retipped with a paratrace once. Right away on hearing it, I knew it was a mistake.

    I had a wood body - a big round thing - that a 103 slipped into, must be a decade ago, that did the same thing as this 'cap' while avoiding the nude option (which I never warmed to). Worked very well indeed wood would be my preference over aluminium (and I'd add more than 3.5g too).
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

  8. #78
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: Melksham, Wiltshire

    Posts: 535
    I'm Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    I'm with Marco on this one. The spherical is part of the cartridge's character. Bugger around with it and in my opinion you stand a far higher chance of ruining it than improving it. I don't see the spherical stylus on the 103 as 'corner' cutting. Rather, it is what it is. Denon themselves have issued versions with improved bodies, there I do think there's a possible improvement. I had a 103 retipped with a paratrace once. Right away on hearing it, I knew it was a mistake.

    I had a wood body - a big round thing - that a 103 slipped into, must be a decade ago, that did the same thing as this 'cap' while avoiding the nude option (which I never warmed to). Worked very well indeed wood would be my preference over aluminium (and I'd add more than 3.5g too).
    God bless you all....

    The Denon Pro is perfectly good as it is .... without any additions. This has been designed by experts . That why itís called the Highiponic (designed by ex Denon Engineers)

    Trust me... this is a stunning cartridge. Donít be messing with it,!!
    Peter


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #79
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,105
    I'm Alex.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    God bless you all....

    The Denon Pro is perfectly good as it is .... without any additions. This has been designed by experts . That why it’s called the Highiponic (designed by ex Denon Engineers)

    Trust me... this is a stunning cartridge. Don’t be messing with it,!!
    Peter


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Makes sense. But Steve's cap is quite easy to add/remove, that it warrants at least a peek, no?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  10. #80
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,248
    I'm Tom.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    God bless you all....

    The Denon Pro is perfectly good as it is .... without any additions. This has been designed by experts . That why it’s called the Highiponic (designed by ex Denon Engineers)

    Trust me... this is a stunning cartridge. Don’t be messing with it,!!
    Peter


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Up to a point .. most arms need extra mass to get the best out of a 103, that's the era it's from ... and if adding mass, then adding a bit of stiffness is not necessarily a bad idea as that's undoubtedly a flaw. (Putting it inside a housing of some kind is the best way to do this as it's easily reversible).

    But totally agree don't mess with the tip!
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

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