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Thread: Whats the point of speaker stands?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Sep 2017

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    I'm Pavel.

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    There was a nice article about the speaker-stand interface (with useful measurements) in Stereophile, well worth reading IMO: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...terface-page-2

    The stands can indeed affect sound, and Bluetack seems to be the best speaker/stand interface ever

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Thumbs up Following 'good practice', and the benefits of getting the 'infrastructure' right...

    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    BTW, speaker stands may do more than just raise the speakers to the correct height etc., but that's the job they have to do first.
    Absolutely. It's simply 'good practice' to use stands designed to properly support the speakers you're using, and as you say, raise them to the correct height, in order for them to perform as intended and be heard correctly by the listener.

    In the same way that it's also 'good practice' to use decent cables, level your turntable, or do what's necessary in order for the components in your system to perform optimally.

    For me, you're either in this game to do the job right, as a genuine enthusiast, or simply 'play at it', by doing the minimum possible in order for things to work to some sort of 'adequate standard' - and that's not the behaviour of a genuine enthusiast, who strives to have the best...

    I was always brought up with the mantra of 'If you're going to do a job, then do it right', to the BEST of your ability - and that applies to how I set up a hi-fi system as much as when I'm painting a room, putting up a shelf or anything else.

    Therefore, 'adequate', for me, is never enough! Especially when it comes to hi-fi....

    I need to know that what I'm using is, as far as possible, performing at its *maximum potential*, which is why I'm a great believer in investing properly in the 'infrastructure' of a system: mains, stands, cables, supports, etc - all the 'unsexy' stuff, which experience tells me is vital to get right, in order for a system to perform optimally, and thus be truly musically rewarding.

    However, you can go on about this stuff until you're blue in the face, because unfortunately some folks simply don't want to know, and would rather believe that all that matters are the boxes and speakers used, so that's where their money is spent, whilst virtually all else is ignored

    It's no wonder, therefore, that so many of them are never happy with their systems, continually box-swapping and constantly chasing a 'sound in their heads' that they may never achieve, when much of that angst could be avoided (and money saved) if they concentrated instead on getting the basics right first, and with it, the system's infrastructure, thus allowing the boxes and speakers they've chosen to realise their FULL potential, before moving onto pastures new, continually making the same mistakes and getting nowhere...

    <Rant over>

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


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  3. #23
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovel_Knight View Post
    There was a nice article about the speaker-stand interface (with useful measurements) in Stereophile, well worth reading IMO: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...terface-page-2

    The stands can indeed affect sound, and Bluetack seems to be the best speaker/stand interface ever
    If a typical 10" woofer cone/voice-coil assembly with a moving mass of 50 grams moves 25mm peak-peak, a cabinet with a mass of 5kg sitting on a friction-free surface will move 250µm: a quarter of a millimeter! Any friction from the support will reduce the cabinet motion, but even if it does by a factor of 100, the resultant 2.5µm cabinet motion is still of the order of that of the tweeter diaphragm's and will frequency-modulate its output. Spiking the speaker or its stand to the floor beneath the rug gives the system a much better mechanical "ground," reducing its reactive motion to the benefit of its sound.

    Yes, because you quite often see speakers with 10 inch woofers in cabs that weigh 5 kilos. When they have to bend the facts that much to fit the bollocks agenda then alarm bells ring immediately. How much is the cab moving if it weighs a more realistic 20 kilos? Answer is: none at all. What a crock of shit.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    sometimes a slight tilt back works better than a short stand imv. you still retain the floor reinforcement .it doesnt need much if you are a reasonable distance away
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  5. #25
    Join Date: Sep 2017

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    I'm Pavel.

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    I also find this explanation to be dubious at best, but the fact is that coupling the speakers to the surface they sit on or decoupling them from it indeed does make a difference. I find the text useful because they provide some numerical data. I also sincerely doubt they had any commercial interest in mind because they ended recommending Blu-Tack and styrofoam sheets over audiophile products.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Sep 2009

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    Marco, I'm currently looking to lift my Lockwoods as my room is now smaller. Need to get the sweet spot back

    I am guessing that because they have a downward firing reflex that the platforms (or stands) shouldn't be of an open frame design but rather a shelf like design?
    Last edited by The Black Adder; 27-02-2018 at 13:06.
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  7. #27
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovel_Knight View Post
    I also find this explanation to be dubious at best, but the fact is that coupling the speakers to the surface they sit on or decoupling them from it indeed does make a difference. I find the text useful because they provide some numerical data. I also sincerely doubt they had any commercial interest in mind because they ended recommending Blu-Tack and styrofoam sheets over audiophile products.
    I agree that the speaker/floor or stand/floor interface makes a difference. Or can do depending on the floor and what it is made of and how it is covered. If you have a suspended wooden floor you are going to run into all sorts of issues you won't encounter at all with a solid floor.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Hi Jo,

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Adder View Post
    Marco, I'm currently looking to lift my Lockwoods as my room is now smaller. Need to get the sweet spot back

    I am guessing that because they have a downward firing reflex that the platforms (or stands) shouldn't be of an open frame design but rather a shelf like design?
    Yup, some form of (spiked) flat platforms I've found are best, which are wide and deep enough to support the full dimensions of the Lockwoods. This is what I use and what you're looking for (should show on the middle of the screen):

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=...KGmv0Sl4ZsKIM:

    And use them so that their widest parts are positioned horizontally, to successfully support the full width of your speakers.

    If you can find a pair of Mana amp stands (for a Krell amplifier), such as the above, then those would be spot on, as they're both fully adjustable (you can raise or lower the boards, via use of the supplied spikes) in order to get the speakers bang on level [yes, this does make a difference to how they sound], also get the tweeters bang on ear height from your listening position, to achieve the desirable 'sweet spot', and provide the speakers with a nicely firm foundation from which to perform optimally.

    Essentially what you're doing is replacing the floor in your room with a better 'floor' [one that is 100% level and rigid] for your speakers to sit on. This is especially critical (and sonically beneficial) if like me you're using the Lockies on an upstairs suspended wooden floor, although I know that doesn't apply in your case.

    The difference this makes to tightening up the bass response, opening up the midrange, improving control of reproduced frequencies in all areas and allowing you to play music louder, and more comfortably (as the speakers will no longer 'sing along with the room' to the same extent) is significant!

    If you can't find any such stands then it's a case of having something made to your spec at a local metal fabricator, who would build the outside spiked frames necessary, then it's simply a case of popping some (very) thick pieces of MDF board on top, levelling the whole shebang - and Bob's yer aunty...

    If you need the dimensions, or any other info for the stands, just let me know

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #29
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Yes, I think those figures look highly suspicious. Picked almost at random, here are the specs for a 6.5" Audax mid/bass driver:


    The moving mass is 12 grams. The linear cone excursion is +/-3mm. How heavy is the cabinet for a 6.5" driver? Could be anything I suppose, but a lot more than 5kg wouldn't be unusual.
    Yes, I didn't even bother to get into the details, the 5 kilo cab was enough to get my spider senses tingling. Friction effect he just glosses over and inertia doesn't even get a look in. I suspect that in reality it would not move in the slightest even the lightest of cabs.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    I find that raising most speakers off the floor is beneficial, even "floor standers".
    Numerous examples spring to mind - there seems to be something about separating the cabinet from the floor that is fundamentally good for the sound.
    Even just tilting them back can help in a way not associated with tweeter/treble beaming.

    The performance of some standmount / bookshelf speakers is critically dependent on the stand characteristics - ProAc Response 2 come to mind especially, ime if you don't use Target R2 stands then you may as well get a lesser (and cheaper) speaker cos you aren't hearing anything like its full potential..
    .

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