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Thread: Equipment Cones, Spikes, Feet and Pads.

  1. #31
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Melbourne

    Posts: 155
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brucew268 View Post
    Gingko's explanation of ball configuration tends to support my theory about softer(isolation) vs harder(coupling) materials in the other thread in the Artist's Pallette.
    The good old squash balls have been used as isolation platforms for decades...and it does work for some components. You can tune to desired resonance by trying the different bounce rates available for them - red, orange, green, white, yellow and double yellow

  2. #32
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 181
    I'm Bruce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxrob200 View Post
    The good old squash balls have been used as isolation platforms for decades...and it does work for some components. You can tune to desired resonance by trying the different bounce rates available for them - red, orange, green, white, yellow and double yellow
    Yes, but I'm curious whether even the softest can get down below 20Hz. I notice with my inner tubes that if they have any more air than enough to be just suspended, it is up messing with the musical frequency bands.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Calyx 24/192 DAC, tweaked laptop w/JRMC. Amplification: Pass DIY B1rev2 pre, Classe Audio 70. Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1sc. Cables/stands: spkr MIT MH-750 / HT Truthlink XLR, Vampire AI2, RFC Pluto, heavy sand-filled Target stands for speakers and Hi-Fi. Bass traps in corners, acoustic panels at first reflection points. Isolation: Roller bearings & cups, inner tubes. Mains: Balanced power transformer feeding hydra mains block.

  3. #33
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 24
    I'm Paul.

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    I have a degree in Electronics but the more I spend tinkering with Hi-Fi the more I find unbelievable. In the past I would laugh out loud at anyone spending large sums on cables or support devices but when you can clearly demonstrate the effects then you have to acknowledge it and change your position.

    So does vibration have any effect on the sound? The truth is that the effect is profound, for example moving components in an magnetic or electrostatic field will induce voltages in an unpredictable manner, this affects valves amps as much as transistor devices. Guitar amps for example cover their circuit boards in resin to reduce the effects of vibration. As regards Hi-Fi the more transparent your system the more noticeable the effects. Through my fiddling I've been astonished by the improvements you can achieve by using slate, ceramic bearings and thrust bearings.
    Old punk rockers don't mellow.

  4. #34
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 21,561
    I'm Martin.

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    I can see how vibration might be an issue with a component that uses valves but the tests have been done and you can introduce a lot of vibration to solid state components and their measured output remains identical.

    I also wonder how much vibration electronic components get subjected to in aircraft, military vehicles, or racing cars. Where they need to work all the time and be accurate all the time. They still seem to work fine unless the vibration is severe enough to cause physical damage to them.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200P CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'This is the sort of music I'd be listening to if I was going shopping for a training bra.'

  5. #35
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 18,158
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I can see how vibration might be an issue with a component that uses valves but the tests have been done and you can introduce a lot of vibration to solid state components and their measured output remains identical.

    I also wonder how much vibration electronic components get subjected to in aircraft, military vehicles, or racing cars. Where they need to work all the time and be accurate all the time. They still seem to work fine unless the vibration is severe enough to cause physical damage to them.
    Careful - you will cause some to doubt the efficacy of 'cable lifters', cryocooling, demagnetising CDs, or the hi-fi equivalent of feng shui'.
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  6. #36
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,193
    I'm Russell.

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    I looked up the Cloud 9 on Google, and yes it appears the company has been bought by Ginko. And now theyíve got Cloud 10, 11, and 12.

    I agree they are overpriced. But what isnít in audio? It would be quite easy for anyone with access to a wood shop to make their own. And I do believe they are squash balls. The website makes claims of 11 Hz, I think? I forget what vibrations from foot falls are? Something down there around 8 to 10Hz? If nothing else it at least sounds believable. Iíve been wanting to build one for years, maybe Iíll get to it this Summer.

    My old record player, an entry level Pro-Ject, had motor noise. If you moved the tonearm above the recordís surface, as you got closer to the label you could hear the motor through the stereo. The biggest reason I upgraded to a better Ďtable. Apparently the inexpensive motor was giving off magnetic fields?

    Magnetic fields are often responsible for electronic noise. Vibration isolation may help many things, but physical isolation can help too. My guitar amp is in my closet, 12 feet from from my stereo. If my guitar is setting near my stereo, approximately 4 feet in front of the stereo, the stereo remains silent, but my bass amp buzzes very plainly. Itís amazing just how black the backgrounds are on the stereo, if itís broadcasting such a large magnetic field?

    Russell

  7. #37
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 24
    I'm Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I can see how vibration might be an issue with a component that uses valves but the tests have been done and you can introduce a lot of vibration to solid state components and their measured output remains identical.
    Lets start with cross overs which live inside loudspeakers, they are subject to large sound pressures depending upon how loud you play your music. Kevin Scott of LV has had his cross overs in a separate box to avoid these issues. Clarity ESA audiophile capacitors are specially manufactured to reduce resonances due to vibration. At the end of the day your best measuring tool is your ears you just need a convincing demonstration.

    We all wish to improve the sound of our systems, dealing with vibrations is one of the cheaper ways this can be achieved. I'll summarize my approach when I find some time.
    Old punk rockers don't mellow.

  8. #38
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 24
    I'm Paul.

    Cool Thrusting is heathy

    My system is half located on a Finite Elemente Pagola table with power amps on the floor. The table is probably a good starting point but I'm not attributing any magic to it.
    Several years ago I was curious about the reported effects of still-points but being a cheapskate I looked for a cheaper alternative. So I did some research and realized that steel-points were effectively just thrust bearings. I noticed our Chinese friends were selling them very cheaply on ebay so I purchased a few to see if they had any effect. I started with some smaller ones and immediately noticed a huge improvement when I placed them under my slate blocks. I was also experimenting with the larger bearings which had a dramatic effect but seem to overloaded the system with bass. Next I discovered I could buy white ceramic bearings on ebay which I used to replaced steel bearings in the alloy supports. The ceramic bearings really cleaned up the Hi-Fi image and cured the heavy bass issue. This allowed me to re-insert the large thrust bearings so they could work their magic.

    All my components sit on slate bases of either 20mm or 25mm thick, the slate is supported on ceramic bearings and each component is located upon a Chinese thrust bearing of size 51217 (85x125x31), so side-wise and vertical vibrations are dealt with.

    The real magic here is performed by the 51217 bearing, by using just one under a pre-amp it transformed a dealers system from good to magical (Universum Horn speakers, Dynasty Fortissimo, Audio Detail Preamp/Dac)

    So whats going on – not 100% sure but who cares?

    Costs: ~£35 for a 51217 bearing
    Ceramic Bearings: £10 each
    Alloy Supports: ~£80 for four with the steel bearing
    Slate : £140 including smoothed edges

    my support equipment
    Rotating Amplifiers
    Supported Preamp

    That should be enough to get the tongues wagging!
    Last edited by jahsavage; 28-05-2018 at 09:01.
    Old punk rockers don't mellow.

  9. #39
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

    Posts: 1,250
    I'm Paul.

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    I have read in scientific papers that 70% of electronics failures are down to vibration. This information wasn’t cited, so I wouldn’t asume it is totally accurate and personally I think sustained heat is a big issue as well. More specifically in aviation generally 20% of electronic failures are due to vibration and humidty. Reading between the lines I think it is safe to say that quite a few failures are due to vibration in electronic equipment generally.

    Mechanical stresses and vibration is an issue with aircraft. Every few years passenger aircraft have all external paint stripped off and thorough NDT inspections for micro cracking. Avionics systems are protected with vibration isolating mounts.

    So vibration is an issue with electronic items but only when the circumstances cause a physical change. It is hard to understand why various isolation or coupling products would have any effect if they do not have any effect on the physical properties of equipment. I think that it more common than you’d expect for some euipment to be excited to resonance which will cause a change that will eventually lead to failure of components and this will effect the performance.

    So I’m saying that it is not impossible that some form of isolation or mounting to have an effect and its more common that some people may think, but it is no where near as common as marketing departments and salesmen wil have people believe. I do agree with Martin that psycology fuelled by marketing has a big part to play.

    Another thng to consider is that if you have a rack with your TT on the top and other items on the shelves below changing the way the other equipmented in connected to the rack will have an effect on how the rack as a whole is effected by vibrations and this could effect the TT. My very heavy TT sits on a very heavy unit and yet I can still feel vibrations sometimes when music is playing and not that loudly either.

    So, I guess that I am sort of on the fence a little with a leg dangling eitherside sometimes with this topic.
    ~Paul~

  10. #40
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 24
    I'm Paul.

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    Moving a wire through a magnetic field does not change any physical properties but a voltage will be induced.

    When a component vibrates in any electrical or magnetic field the same thing can happen. Transformers and capacitor are definite sources in amplifiers.
    Old punk rockers don't mellow.

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