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Thread: Equipment Cones, Spikes, Feet and Pads.

  1. #21
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The more I get into this hobby the more I think that probably isn't true. I mean we can all tell a poor sounding system from a good one. But once the sound is good it starts being more a matter of personal choice and psychology. A lot of psychology. The one exception to that is imaging. Some good systems image absolutely unbelievably well, and some don't. But I think the reasons for that are verifiable and have nothing to do with whether or not you have isolated your laptop with stillpoints.

    I go to the odd show and you see these systems with racks costing several grand, isolation platforms and feet under everything, cable lifters, the works. And the sound is poor. Then you go in another room where they have used none of that, just plonked it all on a table and hooked it up. And it sounds great.

    I should have added valve components to my list of things that will benefit from isolation from vibration, bit of an oversight on my part there. When I had a valve phono stage I did use some Audio Technica sprung feet under it. Although I couldn't tell the difference and if I didn't already have the feet (part of a job-lot eBay purchase) I wouldn't have gone out and got any.
    I agree, if there is something seriously wrong with the way a system sounds, no amount of cords or vibration control is going to sort it out. I got into it with someone on another forum about this, a man said he had a woefully underpowered amp driving some giant speakers, and wanted to know if there was a tweak that could make it work! Someone suggested that an expensive power cord would fix it, I begged to differ. Name calling ensued.

    The sound of any system needs to be intrinsically right before you can appreciate the small benefits that tweaks can bring. I have yet to hear any tweak that made, “Night and Day”, differences.

    Russell

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Only speakers and turntables need isolating, waste of time with anything else.
    I beg to differ, and experience proves it. Why else do you think that my CDP, DAC, preamp and power amp sit on 15 levels of Mana?

    You know me, I don't use anything unless to my ears it works, and so I can assure you that my system would sound notably worse (especially housed in the relatively small room it's in with a suspended wooden floor), if those items weren't being so effectively supported on said stands

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default Too many possible variables...

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I go to the odd show and you see these systems with racks costing several grand, isolation platforms and feet under everything, cable lifters, the works. And the sound is poor. Then you go in another room where they have used none of that, just plonked it all on a table and hooked it up. And it sounds great.
    And was that room the same, in terms of dimensions and acoustics, the system and ancillaries the same, and the music played the same, in order for you to draw a meaningful conclusion on the effectiveness or otherwise of said items you're completely dismissing?

    Don't get me wrong, I've heard the very same thing at shows from the types of systems you mention.

    However, not even the most effective supports/isolation and/or decoupling devices can override expensive equipment that flatters to deceive [such as is the case with overpriced 'badge-fi'], plus you can over-egg the pudding with the use of the former, especially if it's been designed to dampen vibration, and then suck the life out of the music.

    I'd suggest a combination of both as being as likely a reason as any, as to why the systems in question you heard sounded so poor.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #24
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Hampshire, UK

    Posts: 3,662
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I beg to differ, and experience proves it. Why else do you think that my CDP, DAC, preamp and power amp sit on 15 levels of Mana?
    I always assumed it was because you are tall and to save you having to bend down so much...
    Engineers: fixing problems you didn't know you had in ways you don't understand.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Lol - that's definitely one of the reasons, plus having everything up so high certainly helps with 'cable dressing' and getting all of the cables up off the floor and neatly arranged, as unlike most, I can access the back of all my gear relatively easily and ensure that the cables don't look like a rats nest!

    Keeping signal cables well away from mains cables also helps improve the sound, and is another example in audio of 'good practice'

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #26
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 274
    I'm Bruce.

    Default

    Solid state definitely are effected by vibration, sometimes obviously, sometimes rather subtly. When I built a simple buffer preamp, which sounds excellent by the way, the sound was changed with each of the following changes, the first two unsubtly and the last more with more mixed results:

    Changing nylon PCB standoffs for brass ones
    Adding different amount of bitumen damping to the lid
    Different footings: steel cones, wood cones, basic rubber feet, sorbothane feet, low pressure bicycle inner tube, ball bearings in cups.

    For footings: the coupling feet definitely changed the sound but for the worse, emphasizing some frequencies at the expense of others, often a bit harsh in lower treble. The absorbing feet were more subtle but the inner tube gave the greatest benefit, but it's fiddly as it tends to lose air every couple weeks. Combo of inner tubes (vertical) and ball bearings (horizontal absorption) gave the greatest result but are rather fiddly and still a bit subtle compared to the effect on my laptop (with spinning HDD and fan).

    Of course the apparent effect of isolation on the laptop could have been because it was on the same shelf as the DAC whose analog stage could have been picking up the vibration from the laptop.
    Last edited by brucew268; 13-03-2018 at 10:38. Reason: added caveat
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Audiolab 6000CDT > Calyx 24/192 DAC
    Amplification: Pass-design B1rev2 pre-amplifier > Neurochrome Modulus 686.
    Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1SC
    Cables/stands: spkr: MIT MH-750 biwire; IC: HT Truthlink; Target stands, sand-filled; Excel Cat6A 23AWG UFTP & 1attack.de Cat.7 SFTP.
    Other: Balanced AC transformer to hydra mains distr; Bass traps & Acoustic panels; Isolation: Inner tube & roller bearings; 3xZyxel ES104A switches in series w/Vreg upgrades.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Melbourne

    Posts: 166
    I'm Alex.

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    Maybe a small Whoopee cushion

  8. #28
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brucew268 View Post
    Solid state definitely are effected by vibration, sometimes obviously, sometimes rather subtly. When I built a simple buffer preamp, which sounds excellent by the way, the sound was changed with each of the following changes, the first two unsubtly and the last more with more mixed results:

    Changing nylon PCB standoffs for brass ones
    Adding different amount of bitumen damping to the lid
    Different footings: steel cones, wood cones, basic rubber feet, sorbothane feet, low pressure bicycle inner tube, ball bearings in cups.

    For footings: the coupling feet definitely changed the sound but for the worse, emphasizing some frequencies at the expense of others, often a bit harsh in lower treble. The absorbing feet were more subtle but the inner tube gave the greatest benefit, but it's fiddly as it tends to lose air every couple weeks. Combo of inner tubes (vertical) and ball bearings (horizontal absorption) gave the greatest result but are rather fiddly and still a bit subtle compared to the effect on my laptop (with spinning HDD and fan).

    Of course the apparent effect of isolation on the laptop could have been because it was on the same shelf as the DAC whose analog stage could have been picking up the vibration from the laptop.
    Have you heard of a company called Cloud 9? They make isolation platforms for record players, but I’m sure you could make something similar for your amp? Basically, two particle board shelves, with rubber balls in between. Perhaps handballs, or tennis balls? Drill a small dimple to keep them in place, and the band around the top half keeps it from sliding off.

    Russell

  9. #29
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 274
    I'm Bruce.

    Default

    Is that the Cloud 9 series made by Gingko? It looks like perhaps they've taken the squash ball and fashioned a nicely finished stable platform for them. Prices seem a bit high for them if that's what they've done, unless they've had the balls made bespoke to their own specifications. Nice that they've included some resonant frequency information, though the weight-to-frequency data is a bit sparse.
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Audiolab 6000CDT > Calyx 24/192 DAC
    Amplification: Pass-design B1rev2 pre-amplifier > Neurochrome Modulus 686.
    Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1SC
    Cables/stands: spkr: MIT MH-750 biwire; IC: HT Truthlink; Target stands, sand-filled; Excel Cat6A 23AWG UFTP & 1attack.de Cat.7 SFTP.
    Other: Balanced AC transformer to hydra mains distr; Bass traps & Acoustic panels; Isolation: Inner tube & roller bearings; 3xZyxel ES104A switches in series w/Vreg upgrades.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 274
    I'm Bruce.

    Default

    Gingko's explanation of ball configuration tends to support my theory about softer(isolation) vs harder(coupling) materials in the other thread in the Artist's Pallette.
    Bruce

    Theories are not so much answers as questions, to be supported or undermined by experience & testing.

    Source: Audiolab 6000CDT > Calyx 24/192 DAC
    Amplification: Pass-design B1rev2 pre-amplifier > Neurochrome Modulus 686.
    Loudspeakers: Proac Response 1SC
    Cables/stands: spkr: MIT MH-750 biwire; IC: HT Truthlink; Target stands, sand-filled; Excel Cat6A 23AWG UFTP & 1attack.de Cat.7 SFTP.
    Other: Balanced AC transformer to hydra mains distr; Bass traps & Acoustic panels; Isolation: Inner tube & roller bearings; 3xZyxel ES104A switches in series w/Vreg upgrades.

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