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Thread: What the Heck?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: gone

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    I'm gone.

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    Tom !! - you gotta get one of those!
    .

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 1,064
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    i bet it has very low tracking error!!!
    Tracing error; often confused but very different. I'd imagine that its rigidity would be questionable, as would getting perfect alignment, and rather subject to footfall, possibly?

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,848
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Tracking error: the angular deviation from true tangential tracking of the record groove by a pivoted arm/cartridge assembly. It is dependant on the arm geometry. Longer arms have lower tracking error (at the expense of effective mass) than shorter arms.

    Tracing error: the inability of the stylus to precisely trace the pattern of the record groove. It depends on the geometry of the stylus, and how closely it approximates the profile of the cutter head. Spherical styli have the greatest tracing error (as well as 'pinch' distortion), whereas 'micro ridge' types have the least.
    Barry

  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 1,064
    I'm Mike.

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    Barry, I've always understood that 12" arms, e.g., have a lower TRACING error than, say 9" That is, they are more able to trace the ideal sweep from outer to inner grooves, thereby exhibiting lower inner/outer groove distortion. Similarly, TRACKING error is the inability for the stylus to stay in/ track the groove. This could be caused, e.g. by incorrect overhang etc.

    Could be wrong here, but it looks as though your info. above completely gainsays my understanding, which is learnt rather than derived from technical knowhow. Odd, but I'd like to know.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    The lower the mass of a cantilever will also reduce tracing error
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  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Lol - great pic, but that arm's a joke, and will almost certainly sound like it!

    12" arms? Undoubtedly technically superior to 9" ones (for reasons given), but most I've heard sound a bit laid back, despite their otherwise good points (smoothness and bass weight) compared with even the best 9-inchers.

    For me, however, the latter have a zesty/dynamic 'get-up-and-go', and 'fun factor', absent in their 12" counterparts, which I need for my music listening.

    Some say 10" arms offer the best compromise between both - sentiments my instincts tell me could be right - which is why at some point, sooner rather than later, I intend to test that theory

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #17
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,848
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Reed View Post
    Barry, I've always understood that 12" arms, e.g., have a lower TRACING error than, say 9" That is, they are more able to trace the ideal sweep from outer to inner grooves, thereby exhibiting lower inner/outer groove distortion. Similarly, TRACKING error is the inability for the stylus to stay in/ track the groove. This could be caused, e.g. by incorrect overhang etc.

    Could be wrong here, but it looks as though your info. above completely gainsays my understanding, which is learnt rather than derived from technical knowhow. Odd, but I'd like to know.
    https://www.stereophile.com/referenc...try/index.html
    Barry

  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Reed View Post
    Tracing error; often confused but very different. I'd imagine that its rigidity would be questionable, as would getting perfect alignment, and rather subject to footfall, possibly?
    I was being sarcastic.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  9. #19
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 2,814
    I'm Hugo.

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    Going to the other extreme, how about a 7” tonearm with zero offset?

    https://theaudiophileman.com/rigid-f...earm-viv-labs/

    I’d love to hear one of these.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    There's some clever engineering going on there... Love the bubble level, for ascertaining correct VTA! Why has no-one else thought of that?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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