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Thread: Electrostatic/Planar Speakers

  1. #151
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Banbury, Oxfordshire/Panteg is where my late father was born

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    I'm Chris.

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    A very enjoyable and entertaining post Tony C, never really fancied Quads myself but have only heard them casually.
    Chris

    We've gone on holiday by mistake !

  2. #152
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Lake District

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    I'm Rodger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    Lotta truth in these last few posts. What is easy to see is there is commonality of agreement, really, on various Quads and how they perform.

    57s just do mid range magic and nowt else really. 2905 did have a go at bass. CLX does good bass but gives up at 57Hz.

    MLs and Quads fail at low volume where they turn into a wishy washy ill defined mess. The ML hybrids at least do bass well and sound quite dynamic. I owned MLs for 17 years.

    I've never felt any urge to own Quads but I do see the 57s appeal. The other models I don't, really. Dull and muffled sounding I have usually found, with a total lack of meaty low end.

    A high performance contemporary Apogee incorporating much of what Graz, Jon and I have learnt will simply amaze in many respects, but also feed you with so much auditory information it can feel like you are on information overload as you are literally assaulted with detail delivered at apparently blinding speed and with stunning levels of resolution. It is bloody addictive and highly exhilarating but coping with it will certainly not be everyone's cuppa as you sit there literally awestruck. But unusually for a planar they can do bass with more apparent definition and speed than the best cone speakers, and certainly lower and with more impact than any large ESL I have ever heard. But they do have excursion limitations so volume capability cannot approach a Wilson in the bass dept.

    I do appreciate those who have heard older Apogees and smaller models than the ones I own might find it difficult to appreciate what I have said above, as I too have heard sub-optimal Apogees.

    What's best then? Whatever you like, really. That simple.
    Not in my room Justin, Minus 2db at 48. a guy I chat too sent me his in room CLXmes, minus 3db at 44, don't always believe what's out there, ML privately state that they prefer to be conservative with their published DB levels.

    its also about the 'quality' of that base No? I would prefer clean and coherent single panel base at those levels than overblown 'woooooooMfff.... base down to the 30's

  3. #153
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

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    I'm Justin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMooN View Post
    Not in my room Justin, Minus 2db at 49, a guy I chat too sent me his in room CLX minus 3 dd at 44, don't always believe what's out there, ML privately state that they prefer to be conservative with their published DB levels.
    I can believe that. The Behringer test mic I have says mine are +/- 0DB at 21 Hz. Apogee never claimed less than 30Hz for Duettas I believe.

    CLX when right doesn't actually sound that bass constrained with a lot of material. I loved them with all ARC kit until the signal hit some Jadis JA200s. Fabulous.
    "And it's lend me £10 and I'll buy you a drink. And mother wake me early in the morning."

  4. #154
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 261
    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    I can believe that. The Behringer test mic I have says mine are +/- 0DB at 21 Hz. Apogee never claimed less than 30Hz for Duettas I believe.

    CLX when right doesn't actually sound that bass constrained with a lot of material. I loved them with all ARC kit until the signal hit some Jadis JA200s. Fabulous.
    Only heard the Jadis JA200 once at the Heathrow show years ago. They were driving Anthony Gallo I seem to remember. Superb controlled bass I have never forgotten.

  5. #155
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

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    I'm Justin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopse View Post
    Only heard the Jadis JA200 once at the Heathrow show years ago. They were driving Anthony Gallo I seem to remember. Superb controlled bass I have never forgotten.
    I remember Gallos and JA80s at Heathrow. Nice cuddly warm sound from that combo.
    "And it's lend me £10 and I'll buy you a drink. And mother wake me early in the morning."

  6. #156
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMooN View Post
    There are some unquestionably fantastic cellular construction transducers from the likes of YG, Magico, as well as Hybrids such as Gryphon Pendragon's etc.etc, all modern design concepts and production Marco
    And:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. C View Post
    Marco,

    I would suggest a pair of Apogee Scintilla's would cause you some reconsidering even the stages.
    Though quality amplification is required due to the rather silly 79dB sens and 1 ohm load lol
    Lol... Why am I being brought into this chaps? I don't recall having contributed to this thread so far...

    Ok, here's what I think (based on my experience to date):

    Like any good, well-designed speakers, Quad ESLs are able to *truly excel* in some areas (arguably producing the most realistic and least coloured midrange available from any speaker), but the trade-off is evident in other areas of their frequency response (slightly recessed top-end with compromised, although adequately reproduced bass for most needs).

    Peter Walker had a specific goal in mind, when he designed the original 57s [it was never meant to be 'all things to all men'], and also what they'd be partnered with, in order to achieve that goal [his own electronics at the time], and IMO, he achieved that with considerable aplomb. As such, for me, they deserve to be considered as an iconic design, and one of the best speakers ever produced.

    Would I use them?

    No, not unless I was building a second system, tailored to suit them, and to play music that they were designed to most faithfully reproduce (anything involving the human voice and acoustic instruments), but specifically classical music. However, that's not to say that they're not good with other stuff - but crucially only with music that doesn't require listening to very loudly, in order to sound 'realistic', such as heavy rock.

    Quad ESLs simply won't go terribly loud, especially in a large room, before the sound starts to fall apart. When they're used within their optimum range, however, and with the right music in the right system [and positioned properly in the right room], the results produced can be spellbinding - and most of all, unlike many of today's speakers, they sound 'musical'.

    Therefore, much like many well-thought out, well-designed speakers, they're a very capable 'tool', when used for their intended purpose, and within designed parameters.

    For me though, they put 'too many of their eggs into the one basket', as it were, and my musical tastes are a little too diverse for them to do that justice, but I'd certainly be predisposed to using them more than I would the vast majority of a-musical, tuneless 'hi-fi squawkers', posing as speakers, today!

    So there you have it, my views on the Quads Tony hates.....

    As for the Apogees mentioned, I've heard some great sounds from them at shows, but as yet haven't heard them in a good home system. For that, I await my visit to Justers! Not sure I could live with the looks though, as it's not my thing. In that respect, I'm (mostly) a retro guy at heart

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

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  7. #157
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

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    I'm Justin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    For that, I await my visit to Justers! Not sure I could live with the looks though, as it's not my thing. In that respect, I'm (mostly) a retro guy at heart

    Marco.
    We're trying to move house and the current plan is actually somewhere much closer to you... though not in Wales. Probs best left til then.

    The proposed new room is friggin' huge, though. Kind of wonder how well they will work in it. Might have to get some Full Range made instead.
    "And it's lend me £10 and I'll buy you a drink. And mother wake me early in the morning."

  8. #158
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 21,986
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User211 View Post
    We're trying to move house and the current plan is actually somewhere much closer to you... though not in Wales. Probs best left til then.

    The proposed new room is friggin' huge, though. Kind of wonder how well they will work in it. Might have to get some Full Range made instead.
    Moving up to Stoke then Justin? You know it makes sense
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'This is the sort of music I'd be listening to if I was going shopping for a training bra.'

  9. #159
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: glasgow

    Posts: 2,220
    I'm tony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    And:



    Lol... Why am I being brought into this chaps? I don't recall having contributed to this thread so far...

    Ok, here's what I think (based on my experience to date):

    Like any good, well-designed speakers, Quad ESLs are able to *truly excel* in some areas (arguably producing the most realistic and least coloured midrange available from any speaker), but the trade-off is evident in other areas of their frequency response (slightly recessed top-end with compromised, although adequately reproduced bass for most needs).

    Peter Walker had a specific goal in mind, when he designed the original 57s [it was never meant to be 'all things to all men'], and also what they'd be partnered with, in order to achieve that goal [his own electronics at the time], and IMO, he achieved that with considerable aplomb. As such, for me, they deserve to be considered as an iconic design, and one of the best speakers ever produced.

    Would I use them?

    No, not unless I was building a second system, tailored to suit them, and to play music that they were designed to most faithfully reproduce (anything involving the human voice and acoustic instruments), but specifically classical music. However, that's not to say that they're not good with other stuff - but crucially only with music that doesn't require listening to very loudly, in order to sound 'realistic', such as heavy rock.

    Quad ESLs simply won't go terribly loud, especially in a large room, before the sound starts to fall apart. When they're used within their optimum range, however, and with the right music in the right system [and positioned properly in the right room], the results produced can be spellbinding - and most of all, unlike many of today's speakers, they sound 'musical'.

    Therefore, much like many well-thought out, well-designed speakers, they're a very capable 'tool', when used for their intended purpose, and within designed parameters.

    For me though, they put 'too many of their eggs into the one basket', as it were, and my musical tastes are a little too diverse for them to do that justice, but I'd certainly be predisposed to using them more than I would the vast majority of a-musical, tuneless 'hi-fi squawkers', posing as speakers, today!

    So there you have it, my views on the Quads Tony hates.....

    As for the Apogees mentioned, I've heard some great sounds from them at shows, but as yet haven't heard them in a good home system. For that, I await my visit to Justers! Not sure I could live with the looks though, as it's not my thing. In that respect, I'm (mostly) a retro guy at heart

    Marco.
    Spot on Marco...

  10. #160
    Join Date: Feb 2011

    Location: glasgow

    Posts: 2,220
    I'm tony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    Get some quality valve amplification in there Tony, the Eddies will show you they can match the 57ís for vocals and midrange.
    With the added dynamic grunt and bass its the whole package.

    Know your invested invested in Mr Wonfors amps, just an alternative way to skin a cat.
    Just saying if your still hankering after that 57 magic.

    Youíve still a lot of pain to go through until the new kit has bedded in though, let that pass and see where you are.
    Im hearing you Gary but im very happy with the noise getting made with the class A.

    Incremental improvements every day with the eddies and cables settling down but at the end of the day you cant get round the physics of moving big drivers as opposed to a mylar film.

    The ESLs are incredibly fast and dont have any cabinet noise- pure pish at Floyd though!!!

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