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Thread: Denon 103SA

  1. #11
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

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    I'm Oliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I'd much rather have a DL103D with the elliptical stylus.
    Why? Having not heard either it's just for interest.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    Analogue: Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 MK5 tonearm > Ortofon Kontrapunkt b > Bigbottle Jfet MC Valve Phonostage (Telefunken Valves)
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    Amplification: Nelson Pass DCB1 with Khozmo 48 Step Series Attenuator & Krell KSA100 MK2 Amplifier
    Cables: Fisual S-Flex Speaker Cable & SPOTFIRE IC Cables & NEW SPOTFIRE Tonearm cable
    Speakers: Pioneer CS-77A

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 18,675
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Why? Having not heard either it's just for interest.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    I don't like the Shibata stylus profile, and when Practical Hi-Fi did a review they disliked the 103S and preferred the 103D.
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  3. #13
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,308
    I'm Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I don't like the Shibata stylus profile, and when Practical Hi-Fi did a review they disliked the 103S and preferred the 103D.
    Bit sweeping that no? - unless you are talking about just the 103S, there's lot more to a stylus assembly than a cantilever and a tip and overall implementation matters enormously and the SA may not be exactly the same beast.

    Beyond that, I've heard a few cartridges sound superb with the Shibata stylus profile (not least the Miyajima Shilabe and of course the Miyajima Madake I'm running at the moment. Needs careful setting up but all cartridges do especially at this level.

    I bought a 103SA once but it arrived with the stylus guard loose and the tip broken off so I didn't get to hear it
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 3,538
    I'm jamie.

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    well i can tell you hand on heart,im not missing a fine line or shibata tip right now with this cartridge oli.
    My System/ Yamaha NS1000M speakers ,Pioneer PLC-590,Sony TTS-8000 turntables,Pioneer PA-5000 and PMAT-1010 Tonearms,AT-ART 7 Cartridge,Denon HA-500 Head Amp, John Wood KT88 Valve Amp, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp,Sony X555ES CD Player,Karma Interconnects

  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 18,675
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Bit sweeping that no? - unless you are talking about just the 103S, there's lot more to a stylus assembly than a cantilever and a tip and overall implementation matters enormously and the SA may not be exactly the same beast.

    Beyond that, I've heard a few cartridges sound superb with the Shibata stylus profile (not least the Miyajima Shilabe and of course the Miyajima Madake I'm running at the moment. Needs careful setting up but all cartridges do especially at this level.

    I bought a 103SA once but it arrived with the stylus guard loose and the tip broken off so I didn't get to hear it
    The SA has a spherical tip.

    The Shibata stylus profile was designed for the replay of quadriphonic records (specifically CD-4) and whilst I have only heard one cartridge fitted with it, and so ought not to generalise, I didn't like what I heard: the treble was far too 'hot' and dominant. I much prefer 'fine line' or elliptical stylii and have several moving-coil cartridges fitted with them.
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  6. #16
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 37,245
    I'm Geoff.

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    Yes. JVC's 'CD-4 Discrete' if I recall was one system (were there other record ones?). The fine Shibata stylus edge being needed to read the carrier signal modulations for quadrophonic rear infomation as well as the front stereo signal. I remember quad purposed Shibata stylus cartridges being slated for being too ruthless at the top end when playing regular steroe records.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,308
    I'm Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    The SA has a spherical tip.

    The Shibata stylus profile was designed for the replay of quadriphonic records (specifically CD-4) and whilst I have only heard one cartridge fitted with it, and so ought not to generalise, I didn't like what I heard: the treble was far too 'hot' and dominant. I much prefer 'fine line' or elliptical stylii and have several moving-coil cartridges fitted with them.
    Plenty of reasons a cartridge can have hot treble other than the stylus profile.
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 3,538
    I'm jamie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    The SA has a spherical tip.

    The Shibata stylus profile was designed for the replay of quadriphonic records (specifically CD-4) and whilst I have only heard one cartridge fitted with it, and so ought not to generalise, I didn't like what I heard: the treble was far too 'hot' and dominant. I much prefer 'fine line' or elliptical stylii and have several moving-coil cartridges fitted with them.
    well im certainly not sitting here thinking wheres all the detail gone? so what gives? all i can think of right now is the profile of the diamond is not the be all and end all.
    My System/ Yamaha NS1000M speakers ,Pioneer PLC-590,Sony TTS-8000 turntables,Pioneer PA-5000 and PMAT-1010 Tonearms,AT-ART 7 Cartridge,Denon HA-500 Head Amp, John Wood KT88 Valve Amp, Nakamichi ca5 pre amp,Sony X555ES CD Player,Karma Interconnects

  9. #19
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,308
    I'm Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie123 View Post
    well im certainly not sitting here thinking wheres all the detail gone? so what gives? all i can think of right now is the profile of the diamond is not the be all and end all.
    Sphericals can sound fantastic, I just bought a spherical MC myself (Ortofon SPU #1S). And you are right there is far more to overall performance than the stylus profile.
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 37,245
    I'm Geoff.

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    The DL-103R does not lack detail and that also has a conical tip. Perhaps the same one.

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