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Thread: Quad ESL 57s

  1. #111
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Liverpool

    Posts: 277
    I'm Andrew.

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    Hello only just joined this forum so playing a little catch up not sure if it is of interest to others but if it helps or has some merit will add . I bought a pair of Quad ESL57 speakers in November . Thye seemed in very good condition and sounded pretty good . However when I used an Dspeaker Antimode unit on them it became obvious that there were issues with the bass panels.

    Following a recommendation from another Quad enthusiast I took the plunge and delivered my speakers to Andrew at A QuadThing Limited who after stripping them down gave me the good news / bad news . Good news was the spaekers had been fitted with One Thing new mains input boards and there Widget to protect the speakers from too powerful amplifiers. Also the treable units were newish One Thing Aduio panels in both speakers and they were fine.

    Bad news the bass panels were original Quad Units and all four were in dire need of full strip and refurbishment . Andrew was also a little concerned at the quality of the wiring so we agreed this would be fixed and he would respray the speakers my preferred black. All of this has now been done and Andrew says they are sounding excellent equal to the ones he has and I heard when I delivered my speakers. Sadly not able to collect till Friday (the tension and anticipation is killing me) and even when I get them back they will need a full set up with Dirac Live before I can settle down and play some music.

    Would anyone be interested in me giving details here of how they sound ? If you do just add to the thread and I will put something on over the weekend . Do not expect anything too much from me on Friday as it is going to be a music binge and the panels will need to get up to charge and get run in before they truly sing . Andrew gave me advice which I had found to be correct that due to the thickness of the mylar film they take quite a while to get fully charged and should be left on all the time . After about two days they will sound even better .

  2. #112
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Liverpool

    Posts: 277
    I'm Andrew.

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    Just to follow up I have arrived home about ten minutes ago and now have the fully refurbished Quad ESL57 speakers back . After a break for a little rest and a cup of tea I will start the work on putting my system back together getting the Quads back on stands and placed correctly and then get a full DIRAC Live measurment session completed so the around 16.00 today i should be able to get my first full listen to my system with these speakers giving their best , fingers crossed .

  3. #113
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Liverpool

    Posts: 277
    I'm Andrew.

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    Morning all this is a follow up to my expereince of the refurbished Quad ESL57 speakers I bought . Firstly a huge thenks to Andrew at Quadthing Audio who did an exceelent job refurbished all the bass panels in both speakers , rewired the one thing gizmos fitted and made the wiring in the speakers a little neater and more secure. Finally he spray painted my grills and the units are resplendent in black .

    All the above is good and sadly it all ends there . I use my Quads in a different way I employ a MiniDSP DDRC 24 between my streamer andthe power amp using it in by pass mode for the crossover but utilising the DIRAC Live software that it contains . This takes nine seperate measurements (one from the listening position then two each side above and behind the listening position and two each side below and in front of the listening position) then it combines all the measurements and spits ouit both the readings for the room and an automatic target curve to get the in room response closer to the house curve they reccomend.

    Measurement went well and the system (using the auto target curve) when played at low to medium levels sounded very good . Then add higher volume and music with large bass content and huge distortion . Certainly not an ideal sound by any stretch of the imagination . A ittle more study by me and lots of help from some fellow DIY users who know the MiniDSP and things have had to be changed . Firstly I need to be able to read the graphs I am producing much more in detail and understand what it is I am looking at and its impact on what I hear . You can not change physics and if a speaker is just not able to produce low notes then it is best not just pump wasted power trying to change that . So I have had to redraw my target curve and get it to reduce any major peaks but get the curve to mimic the reading of the speakers were there are large lows and not try and fill them . I have had some gains now and I can play music at very reasonable levels with out any issues but every now and then some distortion is creeping in .

    So the Quads sounf amazing they do all the things that i wanted them to and with the help of a little DSP they lose many of the issues that people always speak about . But I still have some fine tuning to do and I need to be able to get another pair of ears and views to look at what I have done . I will most likely do this at Kegworth were I can talk to a few freinds there who know lots more about graphs and how to read them that I do so I can get a better insight in to what I need to do.

    I know I am on the right track and all I need to do is a little tweaking as the system now sounds so gret for 85% of time I just need to get that last percentage sorted.

  4. #114
    Join Date: Dec 2018

    Location: Switzerland

    Posts: 12
    I'm Dominic.

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    A few tipps: usually you can set the maximum amount of boost a dsp program applies. I suppose Dirac has such an option too (I've tried the demo a while back, but I don't remember). Set it to 6 or 8db or so. Otherwise if there is a room mode, you will be pushing a lot of energy into boosting a frequency that can not be boosted in your room due to physics. This can lead to distortion, and in the worst case it can damage your amp or your speakers. So do limit the maximum boost.

    Secondly, and most importantly, set the target curve in such a way that it is lower than your measured curve. This way, instead of boosting frequencies that have a lower output than the others, reversely you will be cutting frequencies that have a higher output. And cutting is a) always possible independently of your room, and b) can not cause damage to your equipment. Your dsp corrected output signal will be one or two db lower in volume, but that can be easily adjusted for.

  5. #115
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,771
    I'm Martin.

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    I don't think you will be able to overcome the limitations of the ESL with DSP. What they do well they do better than almost any other speaker, but what they don't do they will never do, at least not on their own.

    If it were me I'd add adjustable super-tweeters and a sub - ideally a dipole sub - and use the DSP just on the sub, and concentrate on passive room treatments and positioning to get the panels sounding as optimal as possible.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #116
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Glastonbury

    Posts: 83
    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedracer View Post
    Dan, there is a guy in Poole who is a wizard with all Quad gear & electrostatics in particular. He is semi retired now but does take work in as & when he feels like it, I could give you his number if you like?
    He is likely to be a whole lot cheaper than One Thing or Quad as well.
    Does your contact still do Quad stuff. It would be good to know for if and when my gear may need attention, and a lot closer to me than Huntingdon or Leicester.
    Thanks
    Current kit :
    Music library (FLAC) on IMac or streamed via Qobuz. Fed wirelessly to Raspberry Pi / Allo Digione and into Lyngdorf digital amplification. This handles room correction and drives a pair of Quad 2905 electrostatics.

  7. #117
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Liverpool

    Posts: 277
    I'm Andrew.

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    Okay been having a rather difficult time with my main system main system my Krell has developed a bad hum on the left channel so had to be removed and is awaiting things to settle down so i can take it away for repair. Then my Denafrips Pro-8 DAC went rogue on the right channel and I have had to post that off to France (Audiphonics) to get them to sort it .

    I have also done a swop of one of my MiniDSP DDRC 24 units for a MiniDSP DDRC 22D which is much better suited as it only does the DSP and sends out digital signals no Crossover or DAC work which is not needed. Like most I imagine I have lots of time on my hands at the moment and this just started me thinking . My music room is not that big and the Quads are not anything like far enough away from the back wall as they are reccomended . Sound is fine and using Dirac Live 2.0 it is much improved . However how far can that go ? This is waht started me thinking the Dirac software is very powerful and the new sessions use 13 different point measurements to get enough data on the room to make a real difference.

    So I just because it only costs me a little time and energy to try something that goes against all normal wisdom with Electrostatics and Dipole speakers. I moved the Quads back as close as i could to the rear wall (about 9 inches) got them both measured as being the same distance from the listening seat kept them almost flat firing down the room (1/2 inch toe in ) . Then did a full Dirac Live 2.0 session taking as much care as I could with accurate microphone placement . As always when the filter was created in this new version of Dirac the bass cut off was too much so tweaked it back a little but made sure the filter line was close the speaker reading line so that there would be no deep troughs that the amplifier was being asked to fill in .

    I have to be honest I was not expecting too much as the sound waves from the backward exit of the panels would most likely smear the front travelling sound . Much to my surprise this proved with the Dirac treatment not to be the case . Sound was clear and nicely focused vocals in paticualr were as good as I have heard with these speakers. Bass was a little too light so a quick second tweak on the filter moving the bass cut off a little further down cured that . I have now been listening to the treated Quads for about three days and I know that the image depth has lost a bit but not as much as I thought. All the rest is excellent and very musical . I did take the DDRC 22D out of the chain and fed from the DAC straight to the Quads and all the problems I thought I would hear were there to a great extent sound was smeared and softened with a strange hollowness . Put the DDRC 22D back and all things snap back in to focus . Now I do realise that I could get possibly even better results by getting the Quads as far out as is possible and then doing anothe Dirac session but given that I am now suffering from tinitus critical listening is just not possible. Thye sound great were they are they are also less dominating in the room and I think they are going to stay just were they are.

  8. #118
    Audio Al is offline Pishanto Specialist & Super-Daftee
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Dagenham Essex

    Posts: 11,215
    I'm Allen.

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    You do all that , Blimey , I must be a Dinashor. , My set up is

    1 Find the Quad 57's
    2 Put them on 2 low level speaker stands
    3 Connect everthing up
    4 Power on and sit and listen
    5 Adjust the forward elevation until I find the sweet spot when in my chair
    6 Once fornd wedge the rear of the speaker with one or two Observer book ( From my childhood 55 years ago )

    7 Sorted , sit back and enjoy
    [

  9. #119
    Join Date: Jan 2019

    Location: Liverpool

    Posts: 277
    I'm Andrew.

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    Not said much on this for a while and I really should have . I have been having the most frustrating time with the MiniDSP DDRC 2D unit as it has become very unstable in its connection to DIRAC Live . Due to issues with my Krell KSA50 I have had to conscript in a replacement power amp XTZ Class A unit and have moved the quads back to the wall with about 6 cm gap . I know that this is against what everyone says to use the Quads but it gets them out of the way and gives the maximum distance from the listening seat .

    The DDRC 2D is being packed off to MiniDSP for them to look at and I have bought a second DDRC 2D to use . This one is rock solid and has made me realise that the original one was indded faulty . I have now run through two seperate DIRAC sessions with different image focus one wide and one narrow aimed at a single listener. Results after making changes to the original curve while listening to music and being at the listener seat I use has produced the best sound of any system I have yet had in this room and currently in the house as well . The music is just wonderful with life energy and that lovely Quad image window that I remember from my first hearing of a pair .

    Bass as always is not really exisitent very loww down and is never going to rattle the windows but it can be powerful and deep and drive music along when it needs to . Above all it is as one with the mid and treble it sounds natural and unforced and quite imprtant there is difference to the sounds of the bass , texture and tone are now obvious . Vocals always a strenght of ESL are just great natural or treated they are just there in the room with you . This has been a long road and only now am I hearing the full extent of the work done by A Quadthing to these units . I am so happy that I am calling a halt on any further tinkering for at least three months and just going to enjoy the tune and buy more music .

  10. #120
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,771
    I'm Martin.

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    What pre-amp are you using with the XTZ Andrew?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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