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Thread: How hi (-fi) can you go?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Interesting stuff chaps. Now you know why I use NOS valves in the Croft and although I haven't tried telefunkens.

    And to the think for all those years Alan you did not believe NOS valves would make a difference to your designs because of the way the valves were being used!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  2. #22
    Bigman80 Guest

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    There's definitely some magic in those NOS glass bottles.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    It was a definite "wow" moment when those (still sealed ) Telefunkens went in. You know they are good when Alan spends money and buys some for himself ��

    Same with the valve head amp. I'm now doubly excited to build my MM valve stage. (Valve Wizard PCB and PSU) Probably go Headamp over SUT but it'll be fun either way!
    Lol... Yes, he's not a spendthrift is our Alan

    I've been using the best varieties of NOS valves for years, Telefunkens included, so am entirely familiar with their (undeniable) sonic superiority. Once you know the reasons why they're better than modern varieties [how they're constructed and the materials used], you simply wouldn't put anything else in your equipment.

    The trick is getting hold of good ones, as even the NOS or NIB variety can fail, go noisy or just simply sound shit.

    Therefore, to minimise the risk of that happening, I only buy valves from trusted sources, and from sellers who own valve testing equipment, thus can post pictures of the measurements shown, after key parameters have been tested. I also like to know a little about the history of where they've come from, such as when they've been part of old military stock, which invariably means they'll be good.

    As for head amps, well I've been using them for years. My preferred way of amplifying the signal from a low-output MC cartridge has for some time been via a top-notch head amp, through a similarly top-notch valve MM stage, and for good reason. What I haven't tried yet, however, is a valve head amp. I suspect that if done well, it would have the potential to outperform an SS one.

    I believe that Alan has made one such device, so it would be interesting to test it against, say the Denon HA-500 you're planning on getting, or some other quality SS head amp, and see what the outcome is

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #24
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: east yorkshire

    Posts: 527
    I'm steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Interesting stuff chaps. Now you know why I use NOS valves in the Croft and although I haven't tried telefunkens.

    And to the think for all those years Alan you did not believe NOS valves would make a difference to your designs because of the way the valves were being used!
    Yes Alan was still a none believer at Dave's Yorkshire hi fi club meet
    The old telifunkens are quite something
    Cheers
    Steve
    collector and DIY user of old british triode valves

    Open baffles / single ended diy px4 and px25 valve amps

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Steve,

    Well you'll know the sonic benefits of quality NOS valves better than most!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #26
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Lol... Yes, he's not a spendthrift is our Alan

    I've been using the best varieties of NOS valves for years, Telefunkens included, so am entirely familiar with their (undeniable) sonic superiority. Once you know the reasons why they're better than modern varieties [how they're constructed and the materials used], you simply wouldn't put anything else in your equipment.

    The trick is getting hold of good ones, as even the NOS or NIB variety can fail, go noisy or just simply sound shit.

    Therefore, to minimise the risk of that happening, I only buy valves from trusted sources, and from sellers who own valve testing equipment, thus can post pictures of the measurements shown, after key parameters have been tested. I also like to know a little about the history of where they've come from, such as when they've been part of old military stock, which invariably means they'll be good.

    As for head amps, well I've been using them for years. My preferred way of amplifying the signal from a low-output MC cartridge has for some time been via a top-notch head amp, through a similarly top-notch valve MM stage, and for good reason. What I haven't tried yet, however, is a valve head amp. I suspect that if done well, it would have the potential to outperform an SS one.

    I believe that Alan has made one such device, so it would be interesting to test it against, say the Denon HA-500 you're planning on getting, or some other quality SS head amp, and see what the outcome is

    Marco.
    Well, the valves were purchased from an eBay seller in France who has excellent feedback and good knowledge. I have no reason to doubt his stock but as always, there's a risk. Plugged in and warmed up was like an epiphany. It wasn't even subtle. Yes, Alan has been a nay-sayer but it was undeniable and fair play, he got his wallet out as soon as he got home. For the price (£30 for 4 NOS PC88) Its a massive bargain.

    Alan has built a Valve head amp and I was so thoroughly impressed with how it did the job I enquired instantly about building a high quality VHA. Unfortunately, it seems it's not possible to get the noise to an acceptable level. There is a way apparently that Glenn Croft tried which was fairly successful but you would need a lot of valves (Alan says)

    As for valves in the phonostage, what was apparent yesterday, was that there is a beautifully delicate and rich tone which exhibits a fluid sound. I love that. The Jolida though is incredibly good and in my humble opinion, sounds a little drier than the Vivant but performance wise, it's very very close. I could live with either and never worry I was missing out.

    My valve MM stage is progressing. I can't wait to see how it sounds. Will be some time though. I do have 2 Tesla and 1 Telefunken for it though.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Well, the valves were purchased from an eBay seller in France who has excellent feedback and good knowledge. I have no reason to doubt his stock but as always, there's a risk. Plugged in and warmed up was like an epiphany. It wasn't even subtle. Yes, Alan has been a nay-sayer but it was undeniable and fair play, he got his wallet out as soon as he got home. For the price (£30 for 4 NOS PC88) Its a massive bargain.
    Nice one. I'm sure that the valves you've bought are excellent, so enjoy. No idea why Alan was a naysayer, as there are valid reasons why the best NOS valves are superior to their currently produced counterparts, which if you look into in detail, provides all the info you need, in order to comfortably arrive at that conclusion

    The first time, many years ago, I replaced a JJ ECC83, in the PSU section of my Croft, with a NOS (genuine) Tesla, and my jaw dropped at the difference I heard, that was it for me!! It's simply a no-brainer.

    Alan has built a Valve head amp and I was so thoroughly impressed with how it did the job I enquired instantly about building a high quality VHA. Unfortunately, it seems it's not possible to get the noise to an acceptable level. There is a way apparently that Glenn Croft tried which was fairly successful but you would need a lot of valves (Alan says)
    Yes, I can understand that. But it depends on what kind of noise we're talking about... Would it simply be some clean hiss, only subtly detectable in between passages of music (when the volume is turned up high), or something more intrusive than that, which can be heard over the music, regardless?

    If it's the latter, then that's a no-no, but I'd personally put up with the former *if* it improved the sound, musically, to a sufficient enough degree.

    After all, back in the days of cassette tape, most of us preferred recording and playing back music with no Dolby NR, as it opened up the top-end, robbed by its use (which dulled the sound), even though that introduced some hiss - and for most of us it was an acceptable compromise.

    The little battery operated Lentek head amp I've got is hissy, when there's no music signal present, but otherwise is entirely unobtrusive - and for the money it makes wonderful sounding music, used in conjunction with the Croft valve MM stage. The fact that is uses batteries (a 9V one) is IMO one of the reasons why it sounds so good.

    Perhaps then, that's something that Alan (or someone else) should look into designing, if valves prove to be too noisy in that application, and that's a battery powered head amp. For me, done right, there has to be some mileage in it, as anything mains powered will introduce mains-borne noise and distortion, to some degree - and any noise present in the signal path in such a critical application is bound to hamper matters.

    Some food for thought perhaps at a later stage?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #28
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    I think the Nay saying came from the ultimate efficiency in the circuit which drives the valves at its optimum range. Although, a higher quality valve will out perform a lesser quality valve which has been proven to be true!!

    The noise from the VHA was quite obtrusive. Crackling and hissing and audible at times in the track. I'm sure more could be done but wow it sounded great.

    I'm gonna have to convince Alan to get designing

    If there's a PCB out there I might build one up.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,089
    I'm Alan.

    Default A new kid on the block

    A new passive/active preamp is doing sterling duties, so the KIN is taking a holiday.

    It has passive and active (gain x4) outputs and is still being evaluated from multiple sources.



    The attenuator is based on a relay switched ladder arrangement with 0.5 dB steps and full remote control.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    A new passive/active preamp is doing sterling duties, so the KIN is taking a holiday.

    It has passive and active (gain x4) outputs and is still being evaluated from multiple sources.



    The attenuator is based on a relay switched ladder arrangement with 0.5 dB steps and full remote control.
    do we get to know what it is?
    Regards,
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