The Coffeehouse.... Baristi, Barista, Bariste

[Jimbo]

Lol... Well I'm in the UK, and I like a generous cup!

However, there's no way that would be considered as a traditional cappuccino in Italy, as the cup's too small. And when I say 'traditional', I mean the type enjoyed in Italian households, not trendy caffes!

The idea originated from poor families not wanting to waste any bread, and also with their strict Catholic religion, bread was considered as sacred (the body of Christ). Therefore, when it became a little hard and stale, they would dip the bread into their milky coffee in the morning, to soften it, which in reality was more of a latte than a cappuccino, with a higher ratio of milk to coffee.

Now I'm talking about a thick slice of crusty home-baked Italian bread (think 'doorstop' sized), so imagine trying to fit that inside the cup shown in my picture... No, what you need is this:



*That* is a cappuccino!

Should've filled it up, though.....

Marco.

Nice one! Not sure if you know Marco but as a Food Technologist I develop products for all the Large UK coffee shops so I am quite knowledgeable about coffee. However I would say none of the coffee in the large chains really has any resemblance to the size and quality of the cafes on the continent especially Italy, Spain and France.

[Marco]

Interesting mate that you're a food technologist. Nice one. I completely agree with your views on the quality of coffee served, and cafes here, compared with in the countries you mention - but it's getting better

Folks like Grant are forcing up the standards!

Marco.

[struth]

Lol. Gotta keep standards high

How's this

[WESTLOWER]

Interesting mate that you're a food technologist. Nice one. I completely agree with your views on the quality of coffee served, and cafes here, compared with in the countries you mention - but it's getting better

Folks like Grant are forcing up the standards!

Marco.

I think the vital point in James's input was 'coffee in the large chains' ...
Coffee in the independents, is in general, Top Notch! (and yes i've travelled extensively in Italy, France etc.)
Well, it is in the mighty Metropolis, albeit outrageously bloody overpriced. Are there good coffee outlets in The Valleys Marco? ....

and yes, Grant's offerings always look superb!

[Tim]

I always try to seek out the independents rather than chains. As coffee as a social pastime/pleasure on the high street has gained momentum, so have the number of great coffee establishments, there are some really superb independent roaster's and seller's now.

We still lag some way behind Europe, but it's pleasing to see the rise. Good coffee isn't just for hipsters anymore

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

[Marco]

I think the vital point in James's input was 'coffee in the large chains' ...
Coffee in the independents, is in general, Top Notch! (and yes i've travelled extensively in Italy, France etc.)
Well, it is in the mighty Metropolis, albeit outrageously bloody overpriced. Are there good coffee outlets in The Valleys Marco? ....

Hi Adam,

Some independents here can be top-notch, but they're not all like that, and I wouldn't touch any of the chains with a bargepole. We have a very good independent coffee house in Wrexham, called Lot 11, see here: https://lot-11-cafe-and-hideout.business.site/

The quality of the coffee and brunches is excellent. However, the best espresso I've tasted in this area (throughout Cheshire and North Wales), by a country mile (as it's super-strong and has a lovely thick orangey/yellow crema on top, just like you get in Italy), is served in our local Portuguese restaurant, which I think says it all!

For me, the continentals still make the best coffee, simply because it's more to my tastes and what I've grown up with

Marco.

[Tim]

For me, the continentals still make the best coffee, simply because it's more to my tastes and what I've grown up with

Marco.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, espresso maybe, but there's so many more ways to enjoy coffee

[struth]

Think he meant to his taste. I quite like African and Indian stuff. Not sure that's Euro coffee. More UK Hipster for African.
Surprised how much I like the monsoon beans. They smell ghastly but taste great

[Jimbo]

Interesting mate that you're a food technologist. Nice one. I completely agree with your views on the quality of coffee served, and cafes here, compared with in the countries you mention - but it's getting better

Folks like Grant are forcing up the standards!

Marco.

Grant is a star and I follow his barista adventures weekly. There is certainly some great coffee out there and as has been mentioned some of the independents are doing some great stuff. I visit some large coffee shows over the year as part of my job which is quite nice and I see some great stuff. The whole culture around coffee has been growing massively over the last 10 years or so.

I have quite a few products out there with the major chains but not sure if I can mention them publicly as I am probably bound by some none disclosure agreement. However this is now my major area of work as a technologist some I am kind of immersed in it all.

Personally I still feel the continental culture and approach around coffee and especially in Italy is the benchmark and most of the coffee out there seems to be in independent cafes. The large chains have found it an almost impossible market to move into although Starbucks has opened an absolutely amazing coffee shop in Milano.

For what its worth my all time favourite coffee is Lavazza's Crema e Aroma £13 for 1kg off Amazon.

[Marco]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, espresso maybe, but there's so many more ways to enjoy coffee...

Yeah, as Grant says, the key is in the bit you didn't quote

I like the smooth, rich flavour of pure Arabica beans, which is pretty much the 'go to' choice for espresso in Italian caffès. I also love Turkish coffee, as it's super-strong. That's what's lacking in most espressos served in coffee shops around the UK. The flavour is often very good, but it's usually watered down for British palates.

For me, a good espresso, with just the right strength and thickness/colour of crema, is the ultimate expression of the coffee art. It should be served in small quantities, in a traditional espresso cup, and be so strong/thick that it sticks to the sides of the cup (making creamy rings around the sides) when you drink it, rather like Guinness. Justers posted a picture of an almost perfect one earlier.

Anything with milk in it is somewhat frowned upon by coffee connoisseurs (of which I am not one - yet), rather like putting mixers in whisky....

*However*, that doesn't dismiss the worth or enjoyment derived from drinking a milky coffee, which I enjoy very much myself - but only in the morning. No true Italian has cappuccino, latte (or any coffee with milk) after 12 noon. At that point, it's espresso all the way!

Marco.