The Coffeehouse.... Baristi, Barista, Bariste

[struth]

Yes, I like Guinness but only drink it in Ireland - I have never found it to be the same anywhere else. In Ireland it is much smoother and clings to the glass to give a series of rings as you drink it - a bit like a good coffee crema! Fortunately, Mrs. B is Irish, so we do visit at least a couple of times a year for me to get my ‘fix’.

Had another of the above cappuccinos today but Marco’s words must have resonated as I had a proper Chinese lunch in Chinatown!

Used to live on Dublin Guinness ... marvel of the Emerald Isle. It doesnt travel overly well and imo in needs to be made and drunk in Ireland. Plays havoc with the bowels mind

[Tim]

Ah, Guinness in Ireland, nothing quite like it (I'm half Irish on my fathers side). My oasis in Dublin and some of the best Guinness to be had IMO is Nearys Bar & Lounge, I head straight there everytime I'm in Dublin. It's like stepping back in time. Still has 4 working gas lamps on the bar and it's changed very little over the last century. One of my favourite bars in the world, no TV screens, music or faff - just Guinness a sandwich and good conversation . . nowt else and I love it.

I always recommend any visitor to Dublin goes there

(maybe we should start a favourite bars in the world thread?)

[Marco]

HISTORY OF THE CAFFE LATTE
As early as 1847 the English term Caffe Latto was used and then the essay Italian Journeys by William Dean Howells in 1867 who used the term caffe latte.
Respected coffee author and reviewer Kenneth Davids has written that the Caffe Latte is basically an American invention and even in Italy it was first found in Italy only in places with predominantly American tourists.
Some say the Caffe Latte was developed for Americans because the traditional Cappuccino was too strong so more steamed milk was added.

A CAFFE LATTE IN THE ITALIAN TRADITION
The traditional Italian Caffe Latte is usually made in the person’s residence using a stovetop Moka Pot (Stovetop espresso maker). Unlike the American version, the milk is not steamed and frothed, but only heated. The hot milk is placed in a cup and the then the concentrated coffee from the Moka pot is poured into the milk.

So the drink internationally known as a Latte is an American creation which became popular in Seattle in the 80s (do some research and you will find I am correct), you were right about the Italian way of making the coffee at home. It is the same as a white coffee, cafe au lait and cafe con lèche. It is not the cafe latte that you can order in a coffee shop. You know, the one delivered with Latte Art.

It “pisses me off” that you think that you are always right. You are not.
If that gets me banned from here for being factually correct, then so be it. I don’t care either way.

Are you still going on, Kevin?

Banned? I don't think so! You've done nothing to be banned for, but your little strop yesterday did you no favours, and was rather immature.

I don't always think I'm right, but when I'm right about subjects I intrinsically know about (such as this), which are part of my culture, I don't appreciate someone who's not Italian, trying to tell me what a caffe latte (or espresso) is. And the problem is you don't know when to stop, because you want to try and 'win' the argument - at all costs!

There's nothing in your post above that I necessarily disagree with.

As you've now admitted, I quote: "the Italian way of making the coffee at home is the same as a white coffee, cafe au lait and cafe con lèche. It is not the cafe latte that you can order in a coffee shop", which *will* be made from espresso, because they won't be using a Moka pot, but rather a professional machine capable of generating the necessary pressure from which to make true espresso, there's no longer anything to argue about, unless you're still adamant that the white coffee Italians make at home is made from espresso, which was the key area where we differed.

The fact is, to be called true 'espresso', coffee must be pressurised up to a certain BAR level (around 9 BAR), by an appropriate machine, and as it's physically impossible for a Moka pot to generate that much pressure, which as you say is what Italians use, then you *cannot* say that the white coffee Italians drink at home is made from espresso. It might be made from strong black coffee, but it's not true espresso.

Now whether you choose to accept that (indisputable) fact or not, is up to you. I have nothing further to say to you on the matter.

Marco.

[struth]

worked all over Ireland for quite a time... always enjoyed it

[Marco]

technically a moka based"espresso" isnt espresso. before moka pots italians were still drinking caffelatte

Absolutely true on both counts!

Marco.

[struth]

if you asked for a caffe latte in an italian cafe etc you would in fact get an espresso and hot milk(no foam) if you ask for a latte you will get a glass ofcold milk. Its a whole new language, as they also call a moka version a caffelatte which is made with not a lot of pressure.. maybe 1 or 2 bar of pressure...(all as far as I know) not been there so not tried it...lol

not sure if this is right but a caffe macchiato caldo is maybe similar to what we call a latte

[Tim]

I'm just thankful I like my coffee black, my heads spinning at the thought of so many variations and whose variation is the right variation

[CageyH]

Are you still going on, Kevin?

Banned? I don't think so! You've done nothing to be banned for, but your little strop yesterday did you no favours, and was rather immature.

I don't always think I'm right, but when I'm right about subjects I intrinsically know about (such as this), which are part of my culture, I don't appreciate someone who's not Italian, trying to tell me what a caffe latte (or espresso) is. And the problem is you don't know when to stop, because you want to try and 'win' the argument - at all costs!

There's nothing in your post above that I necessarily disagree with.

As you've now admitted, I quote: "the Italian way of making the coffee at home is the same as a white coffee, cafe au lait and cafe con lèche. It is not the cafe latte that you can order in a coffee shop", which *will* be made from espresso, because they won't be using a Moka pot, but rather a professional machine capable of generating the necessary pressure from which to make true espresso, there's no longer anything to argue about, unless you're still adamant that the white coffee Italians make at home is made from espresso, which was the key area where we differed.

The fact is, to be called true 'espresso', coffee must be pressurised up to a certain BAR level (around 9 BAR), by an appropriate machine, and as it's physically impossible for a Moka pot to generate that much pressure, which as you say is what Italians use, then you *cannot* say that the white coffee Italians drink at home is made from espresso. It might be made from strong black coffee, but it's not true espresso.

Now whether you choose to accept that (indisputable) fact or not, is up to you. I have nothing further to say to you on the matter.

Marco.

My point was related to what is commonly/universally known as a Cafe Latte, rather than a regional variation based purely on the Italian word for Milk.

The other points about espresso being brewed at pressure etc. are all points I brought up yesterday.

As for having a strop, you are totally wrong. I am not concerned if you believe me or not. I know from experience if I go into any coffee shop in the world and order a latte (maybe with the exception of some bars in France) what drink I will be served with. Of course in Italy if it is past a certain time (usually breakfast time), it will be frowned upon as you should be drinking ristretto etc.

I could not be bothered with this yesterday, so went off and had a lovely latte instead.
I know I am correct on this at the point the discussion started, but no longer care....

[Beobloke]

Ah, Guinness in Ireland, nothing quite like it (I'm half Irish on my fathers side). My oasis in Dublin and some of the best Guinness to be had IMO is Nearys Bar & Lounge, I head straight there everytime I'm in Dublin. It's like stepping back in time. Still has 4 working gas lamps on the bar and it's changed very little over the last century. One of my favourite bars in the world, no TV screens, music or faff - just Guinness a sandwich and good conversation . . nowt else and I love it.

I always recommend any visitor to Dublin goes there

(maybe we should start a favourite bars in the world thread?)

Most of my Guinness consumption is done in Athlone as this is where the in-laws live although, frankly, it is such a depressing shithole that anything alcoholic makes it better! That said, Sean’s Bar pulls a fine pint (it’s allegedly the oldest bar in Ireland - one of many I suspect!) as does the Athlone Springs Hotel, just outside the town.

As to a favourite bar thread, go for it. I have my nominations lined up!

Oh, and return to topic, I’m going to completely throw the cappuccino/latte discussion into turmoil by simply saying the words “flat white” and then leaving...

[Tim]

Ah flat white - of all the milky coffee drinks that would be my choice if I fancied some milk in my brew. Very popular in NZ