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Thread: The vinyl illusion ?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

    Default The vinyl illusion ?

    Back in the mid sixties we always had a Dansette Tempo in the house and loads of 7" vinyl singles to listen to so I guess a love of vinyl was inevitable. Around 1973 my Mom bought me an ITT stereo with a BSR autochanger and I had a few albums mainly by Roxy Music. In 1977 I had a huge motorcycle smash, spent five months in hospital and two year away from work. Just after that period I bought my first 'real' hi-fi system which was a Garrard GT35 turntable, Trio 40 Wpc amplifier and Goodmans RB20 loudspeakers. After a year, the amplifier was changed to a Naim 42/110 combination and then, a short while later I bought a Logic DM101. In 1983 my dreams came true and I bought my first ever CD player, a Yamaha CDX1. Around 1988 I bought a Cambridge Audio CD2. At this point I basically scrapped my vinyl LP collection only keeping around 100 of my more precious discs.

    Moving on to 1997 I got the feeling that vinyl was probably not that bad after all and bought an Alphason Sonata with an Alphason HR100S MCS tonearm and an Ortofon Kontrapunkt a cartridge with an appropriate phono stage. Obviously I started to buy lots of vinyl to replace what I once had.

    During 2005 - 2012 my financial position crashed and I was living in a very bad situation so everything was sold to keep the baying wolves from the door. Now though, thanks to my current partner Sue and her love of music and vinyl, I am back where I want to be; almost ! I still have a problem with vinyl. I am almost convinced now that I am suffering from the 'vinyl illusion'. It appears to me that the whole vinyl scene is one of mental expectation and the thought of vinyl playing actually being a lot better than the reality. The memory of playing vinyl records is an illusion created by our minds and the reality falls way short of this illusion. It is a glorious thing to play a vinyl record on a really nice turntable/arm/cart, flipping the sides over each time and just engulfing ones self in this beauty. The truth though is that it is nothing more that a pain in the arse full of old junk technology ?

    Someone please let me know where I am going wrong.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Mar 2014

    Location: KY - Scotland

    Posts: 5,465
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Well everyone in my family, ages ranging from 8 to 79 will say that they prefer Vinyl to listen to

    And as for you going wrong, how so? Surely only you know what's right for you?

    As for a pain in the arse, well that's what my wife thinks of me, but she loves me to bits, I must be vinyl

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

    Default

    No point thinking how vinyl was in the past, it's now that matters. If the vinyl experience is not a good one then why stick with it? You have a good alternative with digital systems now that can now compete with vinyl sonically.

    Vinyl is not an illusion as my experience was in reverse to yours. I thought vinyl was a thing of the past and lived with digital for years before going back. Vinyl can still sound magnificent and for me edges digital for a musical realistic experience. Digital still sounds err digital although the gap is closing and indeed the best sounds more analogue.

    I think if you have both enjoy the benefits they can bring to your musical experience and don't get hung up on illusions. Live in the now and choose which sounds best to you.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2010

    Location: East Midlands

    Posts: 426
    I'm Hugh.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    Someone please let me know where I am going wrong.
    I don't think you are tbh.

    I'll now don my crash helmet and get behind the couch.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    You can never totally discount expectation bias is my advice, being in a similar position although for different reasons. There can be differences although as Jim says, if both are set up well it is fractional. I do miss turning those records though
    Regards,
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  6. #6
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

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    I both sympathise and empathise with your position.

    My view is that even with thousands spent on vinyl replay, it is such a limited medium, and illustrably so in many objectively verifiable ways, it is nowhere near good digital sound.

    Psychology provides insight into what is going on in our minds when we eulogise vinyl, and, for most of us, we were young and it formed a part of our development and formation - imprinting.

    It also was the case that in the main vinyl period there was much development occurring which did improve SQ, and this also coincided with a renaissance in the art itself.

    We are very much integrators of our I/P for survival reasons, and this makes it very difficult to fully isolate any one factor and evaluate it objectively, and so we are vulnerable to association and transference.

    Look at the way that, particularly music and also smell, are virtual indexes of past experience.

    I romanticise vinyl, and, 45 years later, I swear that if I sniff my DSOTM too closely I get stoned.

    We also tend to be creatures of habit, and as one ages, the ability or motivation to 'keep up' places great demands on us; you can see many examples of people 'falling by the wayside' as they age.

    The enclosed art with a record also is more accessible and is more plentiful, and we may also be entranced by a beautiful record deck, it is more tangible than the abstract nature of digital. I am considering an Alphason for my Linn, (the latter of which I am not keen on).

  7. #7
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,484
    I'm Neil.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    Back in the mid sixties we always had a Dansette Tempo in the house and loads of 7" vinyl singles to listen to so I guess a love of vinyl was inevitable. Around 1973 my Mom bought me an ITT stereo with a BSR autochanger and I had a few albums mainly by Roxy Music. In 1977 I had a huge motorcycle smash, spent five months in hospital and two year away from work. Just after that period I bought my first 'real' hi-fi system which was a Garrard GT35 turntable, Trio 40 Wpc amplifier and Goodmans RB20 loudspeakers. After a year, the amplifier was changed to a Naim 42/110 combination and then, a short while later I bought a Logic DM101. In 1983 my dreams came true and I bought my first ever CD player, a Yamaha CDX1. Around 1988 I bought a Cambridge Audio CD2. At this point I basically scrapped my vinyl LP collection only keeping around 100 of my more precious discs.

    Moving on to 1997 I got the feeling that vinyl was probably not that bad after all and bought an Alphason Sonata with an Alphason HR100S MCS tonearm and an Ortofon Kontrapunkt a cartridge with an appropriate phono stage. Obviously I started to buy lots of vinyl to replace what I once had.

    During 2005 - 2012 my financial position crashed and I was living in a very bad situation so everything was sold to keep the baying wolves from the door. Now though, thanks to my current partner Sue and her love of music and vinyl, I am back where I want to be; almost ! I still have a problem with vinyl. I am almost convinced now that I am suffering from the 'vinyl illusion'. It appears to me that the whole vinyl scene is one of mental expectation and the thought of vinyl playing actually being a lot better than the reality. The memory of playing vinyl records is an illusion created by our minds and the reality falls way short of this illusion. It is a glorious thing to play a vinyl record on a really nice turntable/arm/cart, flipping the sides over each time and just engulfing ones self in this beauty. The truth though is that it is nothing more that a pain in the arse full of old junk technology ?

    Someone please let me know where I am going wrong.
    What are your issues with vinyl Shaun ? Without knowing exactly its hard to comment.
    Regards Neil

  8. #8
    Join Date: Feb 2014

    Location: Huntingdonshire

    Posts: 1,413
    I'm Andrew.

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    Personally I spent years and a whole load of bunce trying to get digital to sound analogue only to finally realise that the only thing that sounds analogue is analogue.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agk View Post
    Personally I spent years and a whole load of bunce trying to get digital to sound analogue only to finally realise that the only thing that sounds analogue is analogue.
    That's how it is and I don't think the two will ever sound the same. There is is still a cold disconnected feel to digital, it lacks soul and our brains are still not tricked into thinking we are listening to something that sounds real. I believe digital has come a long way but it is not there yet.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  10. #10
    Join Date: May 2014

    Location: Solihull

    Posts: 717
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    That's how it is and I don't think the two will ever sound the same. There is is still a cold disconnected feel to digital, it lacks soul and our brains are still not tricked into thinking we are listening to something that sounds real. I believe digital has come a long way but it is not there yet.
    Amen to that. Totally agree. I think that one has to spend eye-watering amounts of cash on digital and it still falls way short of even a half decent T/T
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