Dynamic range of vinyl recordings

[Jimbo]

the insertion of something of a different nature into something else...ie dodgy sex

[NRG]

Your the expert so maybe you can tell me....?

But your google skills are improving I’m interested to read by how much...

[Jimbo]

But your google skills are improving I’m interested to read by how much...

I am interested in your explanation not what google says. I am only asking for information.

[Macca]

I am not questioning the accuracy of digital reproduction whatever you may perceive that to be.

I was referring to transient timing which affects spatial awareness of digital sound. Hence digital often sounds so flat compared to analogue.

I kind of agree that digital can sound flat, at least compared to a vinyl record. I now have a lot of recordings on both vinyl and cd so have done many comparisons. It's also notable how expansive the soundstage can be with vinyl compared to its digital equivalent. Not on every album of course but very obvious on some - Curtis Mayfield's soundtrack for 'Superfly' is a good example.

The reasons for this are outside the bounds of this thread so I'm not getting into it now, suffice it to say it has nothing to do with transient timing.

[Jimbo]

I kind of agree that digital can sound flat, at least compared to a vinyl record. I now have a lot of recordings on both vinyl and cd so have done many comparisons. It's also notable how expansive the soundstage can be with vinyl compared to its digital equivalent. Not on every album of course but very obvious on some - Curtis Mayfield's soundtrack for 'Superfly' is a good example.

The reasons for this are outside the bounds of this thread so I'm not getting into it now, suffice it to say it has nothing to do with transient timing.

I have heard a lot of DACs and many of them sound 2 dimensional with a flat soundstage. However the Chord Qutest I borrowed sounded much more three dimensional and DAVE was nearly as good as anything I have heard from vinyl.
Why do you think this?

And going back to the OP I found the dynamic range delivered through a Chord DAVE was breathtaking. However I must say one caveat here was that the recordings were well mastered and produced. U2 albums still sounded thin and flat but there again they do on vinyl as well.

[struth]

guess at the pre vinyl stage the digital master, if decoded well will sound the same for cd as vinyl but it is mastered differently due to necessity so will sound different for obvious reasons. Think there is no absolute ceiling with vinyl opposed to digital. Probably that, and the mastering at the final stages that make the difference, along with the higher noise floor of vinyl, even if its not obvious to the listener. Noise can be good to the ear, if its the right noise at the right level.

[AJSki2fly]

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html scroll down to 'sampling fallacies and misconceptions'

As previously mentioned an excellent article that clearly washes away some myths about digital, everyone should have a read.

[Macca]

I have heard a lot of DACs and many of them sound 2 dimensional with a flat soundstage. However the Chord Qutest I borrowed sounded much more three dimensional and DAVE was nearly as good as anything I have heard from vinyl.
Why do you think this?

.

I'm not entirely sure and I don't think anyone is although you see all sorts of reasons put forward there's never any accompanying proofs. Certainly agree that my higher end cd players sound more 3 dimensional than the budget efforts. I'd be inclined to say power supplies myself as this tends to be the only identifiable difference, but that is just a (half-educated) guess.

Regarding perceived dynamics, that isn't the same thing as dynamic range. There are all sorts of reasons why we might perceive the sound as 'dynamic' that have nothing to do with the difference in level between the quietest and loudest parts of the recording. You can buy a DAC from China for a ton that will have a dynamic range over 120db. Will it sound as dynamic as the much more expensive Chord offerings? I doubt it. So clearly there are other subjective factors at play.

This is before you take into account that an absolute best case for dynamic range of vinyl is about 80db. So dynamic range is clearly not what makes vinyl sound 'dynamic' compared to digital.

[Jimbo]

guess at the pre vinyl stage the digital master, if decoded well will sound the same for cd as vinyl but it is mastered differently due to necessity so will sound different for obvious reasons. Think there is no absolute ceiling with vinyl opposed to digital. Probably that, and the mastering at the final stages that make the difference, along with the higher noise floor of vinyl, even if its not obvious to the listener. Noise can be good to the ear, if its the right noise at the right level.

I though dynamic range was limited with vinyl because of the limitations of the stylus being able to track a groove?

[Macca]

I though dynamic range was limited with vinyl because of the limitations of the stylus being able to track a groove?

Also the amount of space on a vinyl record is limited. And the speed, 45 is better than 33. Compare the 12 inch single to the album track of the same song. Add to that surface noise and there are big limitations on the dynamic range of vinyl whereas digital is only limited by the bit depth of the format, which, in theory, can be infinite.