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Thread: Dynamic range of vinyl recordings

  1. #141
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post



    Well, at the very least, it would facilitate quick and easy comparisons between hi-res and CD quality digital recordings, which would all add to your experiences in that area.

    I'll wholeheartedly say that since embracing file-based audio, I've never been more aware of the genuine differences in those recordings, and more importantly, it's also enhanced my enjoyment of music in general, as well as introducing me to some great stuff I'd simply never have encountered otherwise

    Marco.
    read my previous posts, did it all ages ago, years in fact.

    What I don't understand is why you seem to favour the idea that it is the extended FR that is creating the difference between the versions on Tidal as opposed to it just being a different mastering. Why is that?
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  2. #142
    Join Date: Apr 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    read my previous posts, did it all ages ago, years in fact.

    What I don't understand is why you seem to favour the idea that it is the extended FR that is creating the difference between the versions on Tidal as opposed to it just being a different mastering. Why is that?
    Were you in a position to know whether the hi-res tracks were genuine or simply upscaled redbook? It's only the last few years that it's become apparent there's been a lot of smoke & mirrors by certain hi-res sales sites. Maybe you were able to compare genuine hi-res which you then down-scaled. That's probably about the only method that's fairly safe - though even this depends on the quality of the software used to downscale. Safest would be to downscale "sensibly" - ie 88.2 to 44.1 so there's no software rounding required.
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  3. #143
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Were you in a position to know whether the hi-res tracks were genuine or simply upscaled redbook? It's only the last few years that it's become apparent there's been a lot of smoke & mirrors by certain hi-res sales sites. Maybe you were able to compare genuine hi-res which you then down-scaled. That's probably about the only method that's fairly safe - though even this depends on the quality of the software used to downscale. Safest would be to downscale "sensibly" - ie 88.2 to 44.1 so there's no software rounding required.
    Yes I agree it is not straightforward. In the first paper I linked to they used genuine hi-rez recordings and switched in a D-A/A-D convertor to bring them down to 16/44.1 - That's a fairly safe method.

    I relied on an IT friend to sort it out (it was on his system not mine) so not sure how he did it. Have also done some comparisons with hybrid SACDs. You can't be sure that they have not hobbled the cd layer of course but that would make it easier to spot the hi rez, not harder. On all occasions I failed to do better than chance. I was quite surprised at the time since I'd been sucked in to the whole deal as soon as I heard my first SACD.
    Current Lash Up:

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  4. #144
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    read my previous posts, did it all ages ago, years in fact.
    It's still a good to revisit things though, and refresh your thoughts on the matter. We're obviously different in that respect, as the opinions I form on audio are always open to being updated. Therefore, it's never a case of 'job done', simply because I came to a conclusion about something years ago, as by listening again I might learn something new!

    What I don't understand is why you seem to favour the idea that it is the extended FR that is creating the difference between the versions on Tidal as opposed to it just being a different mastering. Why is that?
    Well. I could equally ask why you seem so *certain* that the difference I'm hearing is down to mastering, when you don't know exactly which recordings I've been comparing, or indeed what their provenance is? In terms of the latter, I don't know for sure, so how do you?

    Perhaps the difference is down to mastering, or maybe it's something else? The fact is, neither of us knows *for sure*, so we simply cannot present our respective views on the matter from the stance of being factually correct.

    To the best of my knowledge I've been comparing hi-res music files with a CD version of the same, as there is nothing on the recording notes from either, or anywhere else I've looked (researched on the 'net), to suggest otherwise. Therefore, when I hear differences between them, I've no reason to suspect that other than the influence of hi-res, I'm not comparing like with like, which is why I stand by what I wrote earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco
    I've got around 1TB worth of stored hi-res music files, which I can access at the touch of a button, and compare instantly with the CD version of the same, using the same test system, so any significant sonic differences become immediately apparent.

    That doesn't always happen, but when it does, the hi-res version invariably sounds superior, in the way I've described, almost as if the recording has more 'headroom', dynamically, which as you say, increases the sense of air and space around instruments.
    Those are the benefits I hear, consistently and repeatedly, whenever I do the comparison, so make of that what you will. I'm convinced that there's something more to it than simply differences in mastering, and you're not, so in order to avoid a pointless circular argument, it's probably best if we leave it there

    Marco.
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  5. #145
    Join Date: Jun 2014

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    Perhaps you guys should get together for a hi-res 'bake off', you all seem to feel quite strongly about your respective views. And the findings worded in a way that we can all follow!
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  6. #146
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    Perhaps you guys should get together for a hi-res 'bake off', you all seem to feel quite strongly about your respective views. And the findings worded in a way that we can all follow!
    It's not a trivial task to do a proper comparison though. Neither of us are techy enough to do it. Plus I don't think either of us is that bothered.
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  7. #147
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    Perhaps you guys should get together for a hi-res 'bake off', you all seem to feel quite strongly about your respective views. And the findings worded in a way that we can all follow!
    I'm always up for things like that, so next time Martin visits, I'll subject him to the joys of FBA, and sit him down to blind-test 100s of recordings, hi-res and standard, and he won't get fed, or even be allowed to the loo, until he successfully identifies the differences!!

    Think I might be due round to his place first though, to hear his new Tannoys....

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #148
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    I'll play you a SACD so you'll feel at home
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    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  9. #149
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quality - you always were willing to go the extra mile!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #150
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Valley of the Hazels

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    I'm AMusicFanNotAnAudiophile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    If you didn't know exactly what you were comparing, then as Martin says, the 16-bit version might've been preferable because of better mastering
    I'd put money on it being a bit louder ....
    Chris



    Common sense isn't anymore!

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