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Thread: Has Pop Music Got Worse In Recent Decades?

  1. #121
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I was just asking for some data to back up the assertions being made, that's all.

    My perspective is that young people have never had it so good, yours (and Geoff's) is that they struggle. I'm happy to accept that my perspective is skewed from reality since it is only my perspective. I was just wondering if the opposite view to mine is also from a personal perspective or based on some solid research/data.
    I am sure that there is a pile of data and statistics out there to argue one view or the other. I personally find government statistics are generally pretty questionable any way. We all know that stats can be slanted one way or the other by tweaking factors. A good example is the measurement of inflation, I think if you look at it over the years it has been tweaked several times. I believe originally it covered basic items required to live such as food, fuel, travel costs and basic clothing and few other items. I believe it now includes quite a few unnecessary additional items which in effect has the impact of lowering the average inflation rate, very sneaky.
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  2. #122
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 82,291
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    Marco,

    you have a very negative, almost Dickensian, view of poverty and the poor and dare I say it not a very Christian one. Yes, there are some idle wasters who play the system for benefits and have no sense of self reliance or self worth. However, that is a very small minority. I really am troubled by your portrayal of the poor as uneducated, drug addicted wasters.

    Many homeless people and those living in poverty were driven there by an external shock or event not of their own making (e.g. illness, family breakdown, loss of employment).

    Happy Christmas anyway!


    That's not what I said or meant! So I've no idea how you've interpreted it that way....Please don't paint me as someone I'm not.

    My point was that if there are regular wages coming into the house, then if you know how to budget properly and feed yourself and your family cheaply and healthily, then you should be able to lead a reasonable life.

    It's those (legitimately) living on benefits, with no such regular income, who are genuinely in the poverty trap and most likely to really struggle.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  3. #123
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,020
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I am sure that there is a pile of data and statistics out there to argue one view or the other. I personally find government statistics are generally pretty questionable any way. We all know that stats can be slanted one way or the other by tweaking factors. A good example is the measurement of inflation, I think if you look at it over the years it has been tweaked several times. I believe originally it covered basic items required to live such as food, fuel, travel costs and basic clothing and few other items. I believe it now includes quite a few unnecessary additional items which in effect has the impact of lowering the average inflation rate, very sneaky.
    The best known measure is the Retail Price Index which tracks the price over time of a bundle of goods and services deemed to be typical of household spending patterns. Of course this has changed over time with some items being withdrawn from the bundle or substituted. More recently, the RPI has been supplemented by a similar measure, the Consumer Price Index, which uses a different formula to reflect that the actual bundle of goods purchased is likely to reflect relative price changes. For this reason, the CPi is typically lower than the RPI. It is funny to look back at what was in the RPI basket in earlier decades. https://webarchive.nationalarchives....ces/index.html

    I found it more informative to think in terms of the number of hours a median level wage earner needs to work in order to procure a good or service.

  4. #124
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,020
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post


    That's not what I said or meant! So I've no idea how you've interpreted it that way....Please don't paint me as someone I'm not.

    My point was that if there are regular wages coming into the house, then if you know how to budget properly and feed yourself and your family cheaply and healthily, then you should be able to lead a reasonable life.

    It's those (legitimately) living on benefits, with no such regular income, who are genuinely in the poverty trap and most likely to really struggle.

    Marco.
    Again this is incorrect. The bulk of child poverty is amongst households with at least one household member in employment. Current government policy will increase these numbers further.

  5. #125
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 23,142
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I am sure that there is a pile of data and statistics out there to argue one view or the other. I personally find government statistics are generally pretty questionable any way. We all know that stats can be slanted one way or the other by tweaking factors. .
    Yes, that is pretty much my view as well, and every interpretation of the stats tends to have a political agenda behind it, one way or another.

    One thing I have noticed over the years is that people who have spent all their lives in a comfortable middle-class environment tend to have unrealistic expectations as to the standard of living that the less well-of should be entitled to.

    If you've always had money then the idea of not having much money seems terrifying. The term 'Just About Managing' pretty much sums that up. Fact is 99.999999 percent of the global population go through their lives 'just about managing' and don't think anything of it. The concept is only terrifying to the well-off.
    Martin



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  6. #126
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    Again this is incorrect. The bulk of child poverty is amongst households with at least one household member in employment. Current government policy will increase these numbers further.
    It's not "incorrect", Geoff. It's my legitimate opinion, based on personal experience, so kindly respect that or we're liable to fall out. Therefore, I think it's best if we simply agree to disagree and move on.

    This is the music side of the forum, so let's get back to discussing music!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  7. #127
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,020
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    It's not "incorrect", Geoff. It's my legitimate opinion, based on personal experience, so kindly respect that or we're liable to fall out. Therefore, I think it's best if we simply agree to disagree and move on.

    This is the music side of the forum, so let's get back to discussing music!

    Marco.

    Fine, but my comments are based upon evidence not personal opinion.

  8. #128
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 534
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Yes, that is pretty much my view as well, and every interpretation of the stats tends to have a political agenda behind it, one way or another.

    One thing I have noticed over the years is that people who have spent all their lives in a comfortable middle-class environment tend to have unrealistic expectations as to the standard of living that the less well-of should be entitled to.

    If you've always had money then the idea of not having much money seems terrifying. The term 'Just About Managing' pretty much sums that up. Fact is 99.999999 percent of the global population go through their lives 'just about managing' and don't think anything of it. The concept is only terrifying to the well-off.
    I think that for once we virtually agree.

    What I find very sad is that a lot of people in western society have had it very good say in comparison the less well developed countries, and that can be miss-leading as well. If we just focus on the uk then part of the issue is that expectation levels of what is the norm and what people should aspire to own is not necessarily realistic. House ownership is becoming harder, ownership of a car in terms of vfm is good but if you canít own a house then isnít a car a luxury item. Then we have the myriads of hi tech goods, computers, tablets, mobile phones, multi media TVs and all the streaming and tv subscriptions that go along with, oh and then there is the must have broadband service, without this you are nobody. Sadly imo a lot of this stuff is unneeded but advertising and peer pressure tells us it is. Then we have the unreality shows that show extreme wealth and ownership of luxury goods and brand labels, giving the message without x y and z you are nobody, not a great message.

    Even I am subject to it, Iím still on an iPhone 5s my second iphone from new in 9 years. My colleagues sneer and snigger at it and me saying Iím out of date and itís old hat, really! Unfortunately the younger people are conditioned from an early age to have the newest and if possible the best, and that is not necessarily supported by quality or substance, but popularity.

    Yes I have been guilty of this and probably still am in certain aspects, like most the more you have the more you spend, whether you need it or not.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


    Michel GyroDec, SME IV arm, Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD, Tisbury passive pre-amp, pair Renaisance RA-01 300b amps, Impulse H2's and Wilson Benesch ARC speakers depending on how I feel, Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

  9. #129
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 82,291
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    Fine, but my comments are based upon evidence not personal opinion.
    And so are mine. My 'evidence' comes from my life experiences. Much like with hi-fi, stats or 'facts' don't tell you everything! It's like having a cable discussion with an objectivist

    So let's just move on and talk about music - and btw, that applies to everyone else. If you want to discuss the other stuff here, start a separate thread.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  10. #130
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 49,844
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I think that for once we virtually agree.

    What I find very sad is that a lot of people in western society have had it very good say in comparison the less well developed countries, and that can be miss-leading as well. If we just focus on the uk then part of the issue is that expectation levels of what is the norm and what people should aspire to own is not necessarily realistic. House ownership is becoming harder, ownership of a car in terms of vfm is good but if you can’t own a house then isn’t a car a luxury item. Then we have the myriads of hi tech goods, computers, tablets, mobile phones, multi media TVs and all the streaming and tv subscriptions that go along with, oh and then there is the must have broadband service, without this you are nobody. Sadly imo a lot of this stuff is unneeded but advertising and peer pressure tells us it is. Then we have the unreality shows that show extreme wealth and ownership of luxury goods and brand labels, giving the message without x y and z you are nobody, not a great message.

    Even I am subject to it, I’m still on an iPhone 5s my second iphone from new in 9 years. My colleagues sneer and snigger at it and me saying I’m out of date and it’s old hat, really! Unfortunately the younger people are conditioned from an early age to have the newest and if possible the best, and that is not necessarily supported by quality or substance, but popularity.

    Yes I have been guilty of this and probably still am in certain aspects, like most the more you have the more you spend, whether you need it or not.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    fancy phone ehmine's a 5c; its poorer cousin. still does the job, and it was second hand too...lol
    Regards,
    Grant ....

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