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Thread: Has Pop Music Got Worse In Recent Decades?

  1. #111
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Are there any facts and figures to back all this up or is it just Guardian-reader style hand-wringing?

    There's a few under-thirties here working with me. They've all got mortgages, decent cars and take foreign holidays. Some of them manage it even though they have young children too.
    Martin



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  2. #112
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 515
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Are there any facts and figures to back all this up or is it just Guardian-reader style hand-wringing?

    There's a few under-thirties here working with me. They've all got mortgages, decent cars and take foreign holidays. Some of them manage it even though they have young children too.
    With respect Martin, I am not a Guardian reader, far from it, I come from a hard working background. I made my own way in the world and was fortunate enough to get on a government training scheme for IT programmers in early 80’s. My father made his way as a engineer through night school(something you can’t do know). I rose in my career to be in the top 1% of earners in the country for about 8 years, some of which was luck and being in the right place at the right time, but also from hard work and long hours. However I do believe there are far less opportunities for young people today.

    Maybe your colleagues are the fortunate ones and are being paid well for their jobs or their partners are hard working too and have good jobs.


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  3. #113
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I think that would come down more to a lack of education (i.e. how to manage your finances properly and practice basic home-economics, knowing how to cook cheaply and healthily, etc), than the existence of genuine poverty.

    If you've got a decent regular income coming into the household, and the folks in it are living within their means, not spending money they can't afford on booze and fags (or other addictions), in a property that they can afford to maintain (rent or pay a mortgage on - and if not, then why commit to it in the first place?) then given the above, you should be able to make it work.

    Marco.
    Marco,

    you have a very negative, almost Dickensian, view of poverty and the poor and dare I say it not a very Christian one. Yes, there are some idle wasters who play the system for benefits and have no sense of self reliance or self worth. However, that is a very small minority. I really am troubled by your portrayal of the poor as uneducated, drug addicted wasters.

    Many homeless people and those living in poverty were driven there by an external shock or event not of their own making (e.g. illness, family breakdown, loss of employment).

    Happy Christmas anyway!

  4. #114
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 37,971
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    With respect Martian
    Who is Martian?

  5. #115
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 515
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Who is Martian?
    My typo mistake it's Martin
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    Michel GyroDec, SME IV arm, Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD, Tisbury passive pre-amp, pair Renaisance RA-01 300b amps, Impulse H2's and Wilson Benesch ARC speakers depending on how I feel, Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

  6. #116
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 2,345
    I'm Steve.

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    I remember "My Favourite Martian" - he had antennae that would pop out of his head. Not sure if Macca can do that.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

  7. #117
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 23,090
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    With respect Martin, I am not a Guardian reader, far from it, I come from a hard working background. I made my own way in the world and was fortunate enough to get on a government training scheme for IT programmers in early 80’s. My father made his way as a engineer through night school(something you can’t do know). I rose in my career to be in the top 1% of earners in the country for about 8 years, some of which was luck and being in the right place at the right time, but also from hard work and long hours. However I do believe there are far less opportunities for young people today.

    Maybe your colleagues are the fortunate ones and are being paid well for their jobs or their partners are hard working too and have good jobs.


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    I was just asking for some data to back up the assertions being made, that's all.

    My perspective is that young people have never had it so good, yours (and Geoff's) is that they struggle. I'm happy to accept that my perspective is skewed from reality since it is only my perspective. I was just wondering if the opposite view to mine is also from a personal perspective or based on some solid research/data.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * Nelson Pass DCB1 Pre amp / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  8. #118
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 49,745
    I'm Grant.

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    i think the, "there but for the grace of god, go i" is apt when describing people who dont have it good; and there are many. hard work and careful management of money is essential, but so is luck in being in right place at right time.
    that's always been my view, even when dealing with the tramps and beggars you get on streets. if more did, im guessing bthen there may well be fewer.
    Regards,
    Grant ....

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  9. #119
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 2,345
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I was just asking for some data to back up the assertions being made, that's all.

    My perspective is that young people have never had it so good, yours (and Geoff's) is that they struggle. I'm happy to accept that my perspective is skewed from reality since it is only my perspective. I was just wondering if the opposite view to mine is also from a personal perspective or based on some solid research/data.
    And my post (#109) was just my perspective, based on what I've heard and read over the years, and also a radio programme a couple of days ago, probably the one Adrian's wife heard. I have no data to back it up.

    But I have no reason to believe the so-called gig economy doesn't exist, nor zero hours contracts. Neither of these terms are going to look good on a mortgage application. Sometimes you just have to trust that what you are told is true. if you disbelieve everything, then you can learn nothing.

    When I bought my first house in 1983, the mortgage guys would lend me 2 and a half times my salary (about 5k) plus one times my partner's. It just about reached the 14,500 price of the house. Blokes doing my job now make around 25,000 pa, and that first house is now worth 120,000, so it isn't unreasonable to deduce that getting on the property ladder is harder these days.

    in other parts of the country (London and some of the more desirable places like the Lake District) it would be even tougher. The wealthy are making parts of our country too expensive by driving up property prices, what with all their bags of money.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

  10. #120
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,020
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Are there any facts and figures to back all this up or is it just Guardian-reader style hand-wringing?

    There's a few under-thirties here working with me. They've all got mortgages, decent cars and take foreign holidays. Some of them manage it even though they have young children too.
    Martin, there is plenty of data and evidence, both qualitative and quantitative. The rise in UK poverty needs to be seen as part of a global trend in recent decades towards a greater concentration of income and (particularly) wealth in the hands of a tiny tiny minority, and the tendency for wealth to grow faster than incomes (thereby reinforcing the concentration of wealth).

    Regarding the UK evidence you could look at the Joseph Rowntree Trust reports, reports from the Institute of Fiscal Studies (IFS); the OECD or the recent UN report rejected by the UK government who would rather we focus on absolute poverty rather than relative poverty. Aside from those currently in poverty, there are increasing numbers of those classed as JAMs (just about managing) whose lives are blighted by the stress of being close to the edge and just one event from being sucked into poverty from which it is hard to escape. Just do a bit of Google if you want to find the reports and data.

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