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Thread: Has Pop Music Got Worse In Recent Decades?

  1. #101
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    IMHO the Chicago and Delta blues were born in oppression as much as, and possibly more, than poverty! To reduce it to a few more quid in their pockets completely misses the point and the suffering.
    I was being deliberately flippant. My point is that for those people music was a big part of their African heritage so regardless of how hard it was for them or not they would still have been making music of some type or another. I'm not convinced that there is a proven connection between good music and hardship/oppression/ suffering.
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  2. #102
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I'm more cynical than you hence sex not love.
    Lol... Perhaps that's because you've never known true love?

    Marco.
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  3. #103
    Join Date: May 2016

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I was being deliberately flippant. My point is that for those people music was a big part of their African heritage so regardless of how hard it was for them or not they would still have been making music of some type or another. I'm not convinced that there is a proven connection between good music and hardship/oppression/ suffering.
    I agree. Hardship. poverty and oppression have clearly contributed heavily to particular genres, but inspiration, joy, and hope can be equally important in the creative process.

  4. #104
    Join Date: Jun 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    ..and you don't think that there are families in the UK today who have one or two members in full time work and still can't put sufficient (decent) food on the table?
    Oh no Geoff, I totally agree, there are countless thousands who find themselves in this position, which is the old 'poverty trap', but probably worse than it's ever been. Personally I think the term 'poverty' should not only encompass people who are struggling to make ends meet, but also those who managing but are only a change in government policy or a change of circumstances away from real hardship.

    My point was simply that drawing direct comparisons between now and 50 years ago is all but impossible as so much has changed, particularly in the way we see luxuries/essentials.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

  5. #105
    Join Date: May 2016

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    Oh no Geoff, I totally agree, there are countless thousands who find themselves in this position, which is the old 'poverty trap', but probably worse than it's ever been. Personally I think the term 'poverty' should not only encompass people who are struggling to make ends meet, but also those who managing but are only a change in government policy or a change of circumstances away from real hardship.

    My point was simply that drawing direct comparisons between now and 50 years ago is all but impossible as so much has changed, particularly in the way we see luxuries/essentials.

    For me the biggest change is about hope. When I was younger I always had the expectation that my life would be better than my parents, not least in material terms. However, the days of generous index linked pensions has long since passed and the prospects of being an owner-occupier are becoming increasingly slim, and only in mid life for many. There is little security in employment and for many, the reality that a full time job may not cover basic needs (e.g. food and housing for the family) or that an economic "shock" may drive you into poverty. The science programmes of the 60s and 70s promised that automation and robotics would give us more leisure time but forgot to mention that this would be due to unemployment.

    Yes, technology and gadgets are more widely available and cheaper in real terms, but I was perfectly happy at the time with my first hifi and car. In fact, I only got a colour tv in my mid 20s after completing my studies. I was perfectly happy with a 12" b&w panasonic tv before then. It may be difficult to make direct comparison in terms of material possessions between then and now, but the adage that you don't miss what you never had rings true.

  6. #106
    Join Date: Jun 2014

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    I don't ever remember thinking that automation and robots would make our lives better - the only power the average working man (or woman) has is their capacity to do work, and to take this away can only leave us at the whim of whoever is wielding the big stick. The luddites were right all along!
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

  7. #107
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    i know my dad was of the hope his sons wouldnt be drawn into another war like he was, and this shortened his life. he died before i was 21. jobs at that time were available and although he was a boss, he was staunchly labour, having been brought up in 20's when there was nothing. his first job was when he was about 8 clubbing pigs...such was the need for food
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  8. #108
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood
    ..and you don't think that there are families in the UK today who have one or two members in full time work and still can't put sufficient (decent) food on the table?
    I think that would come down more to a lack of education (i.e. how to manage your finances properly and practice basic home-economics, knowing how to cook cheaply and healthily, etc), than the existence of genuine poverty.

    If you've got a decent regular income coming into the household, and the folks in it are living within their means, not spending money they can't afford on booze and fags (or other addictions), in a property that they can afford to maintain (rent or pay a mortgage on - and if not, then why commit to it in the first place?) then given the above, you should be able to make it work.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

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  9. #109
    Join Date: Jun 2014

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    Yes you'd think so, but the reality for many is that their 'full time' job is on zero hours contracts where they struggle to budget, let alone plan their future. And of course many are in the so-called 'gig' economy, which is a great way for employers to exploit their workers with long hours, unrealistic deadlines, and enables them to avoid certain employment laws.

    If they have kids, the situation becomes even worse - have you seen the cost of childcare these days?

    Probably never been a worse time to come from a poor background with an education that's often only as good as the most stupid, disruptive kids in the class. I'm glad to be past all that.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

  10. #110
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

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    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I think that would come down more to a lack of education (i.e. how to manage your finances properly and practice basic home-economics, knowing how to cook cheaply and healthily, etc), than the existence of genuine poverty.

    If you've got a decent regular income coming into the household, and the folks in it are living within their means, not spending money they can't afford on booze and fags (or other addictions), in a property that they can afford to maintain (rent or pay a mortgage on - and if not, then why commit to it in the first place?) then given the above, you should be able to make it work.

    Marco.
    That's a bit of sweeping statement Marco. Yes I suspect that there are some that fall within your description but I hope that it is a minority. My wife was telling me of a radio program a few days ago which was discussing the very topic of poverty in the UK, one fact was that within the government definition of poverty 1 out of 5 children in this country are in a family that is below the poverty line whether working or not. They had a lady caller on who asked to remain anonymous as she did not want to be embarrassed at work. She was working in a full time time job, I think in a call centre, she had 2 children and because of low income she personally was living on baked beans and bread, and feeding her children better food to eat. I suspect that there are quite a percentage like her. There were other callers in a similar plight. I work in what can only be described as one of the icon retailers in the world, however I know many of my young colleagues some with families struggle to survive, they often have more than one job to supplement their income, and cannot afford to do anything else other than rent, which in turn costs them a fortune, oh and by the way the majority of them have good degrees.

    So from what I see and from what I am told I would say that it is extremely hard for a lot more of the population nowadays than it was 20-30 years ago. You also need to consider that wages have been suppressed for the past 10 years which has also had a big impact, whether this was legitimate is another matter, based on the very high earnings that we see reported for the CEO's and executives of this world.

    Thats my view for what its worth.
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