Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

[alphaGT]

Great stuff! Such a sense of accomplishment when your mods pay off! Now I'm searching my 'table for anything I can try a nylon screw on!


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[gwernaffield]

yep i could not Believe
The difference they made , also the ptfe- Teflon damper for the cartridge I used 1.5mm as this can be cut with a pair of scissors , and then drilled using an old head shell as a template , and then cut out to fit ,you can buy one at £20 which is 3mm thick ,but I found the 1.5mm works for me
the only problem i found was the head on the Nylon screws are Bigger, so to make them smaller i put them into a drill and used a file to make them smaller, the Nylon is tough , i kept the Nuts for the cartridge as they are smaller then the nylon ones ,but used the washers so they do not touch the head shell, or arm ,
if you want to try a delrin ball in the main bearing ,keep an eye on it to make sure that there are no changes in size or shape, Delrin is used for making all kinds of stuff including gears also delrin balls are grade one the highest grade you can get for roundness and smoothness, the ceramic balls are grade 5 , the steel balls are normaly grade 10 , unless it is aspecial order and 4 times the cost of grade 10 ,
i found the white ceramic better than the black one, the black ones can be bought off ebay under the cycling section as they are used for race cycles , the white type are imported from china , and are used in diffrent applications , and can be run dry ,but i would not reccomend that , and i would no longer reccomend ceramic as i was told they can get micro cracks and have removed them out of my system
please note i have put this up in good faith and will not beheld responsible for any damage you do to your deck ,just the improvements they will bring ,i am going to try the Delrin Ball in the MIchell , and report back in a month's time ,
keep smiling every day even if some one upsets you

Torlon is used in the following
•Chemical Resistant
•Creep Resistant
•Ductile
•Fatigue Resistant
•Flame Retardant
•Good Electrical Properties
•High Heat Resistance
•High Temperature Strength
•Low Temperature Toughness
•Ultra High Impact Resistance
•Wear Resistant
Uses
•Aircraft Applications
•Automotive Applications
•Bushings
Connectors
Electrical Parts
•Electrical/Electronic Applications
•Fasteners
•Film
•Machine/Mechanical Parts
•Oil/Gas Applications
•Semiconductor Molding Compounds
•Thrust Washer
RoHS Compliance
•RoHS Compliant
these are High Grade Bearing balls that are with in a tolerance of .002 mm they contain PTFE but the PTFE ones are 100% ptfe and are the same grade as the Torlon and Delrin ,

[Transparent67]

Good morning Pete, hope your good.
I thought I would tap a few words over following my first listening session since implementing your upgrade ideas.

Suffice to say, after what was supposed to be an hours session, I ended up finishing at 2 am this morning (how may times have we all heard that statement?), so I really didn't feel like getting up at 6 today.

By nature I am a little conservative & not prone to gushing or following the herd, but I have to say it was a very interesting & enjoyable few hours.

I was listening Via my Stax headphones which give masses of information & my Tom Evans phonostage (also well known for extracting information & zero noise floor).

The first thing which I noticed (as we all do ) is the amount of background sound information (micro dynamics?) coming into the fore from the shadows due to the lowering of the noise floor.**
Next ( which really struck a chord with me) was the separation of the individual instruments & the space between them was quite uncanny, I really noticed this when I listened to the Eric Clapton Unplugged LP, especially as I can now hear more than one foot tapping on the stage & more backing singers than I originally thought - in a word excellent.

Dark side of the moon again revealed a lot more than before, I noticed the extra solidity of the heartbeats at the start which had more presence & weight, so assume there has been an increase in the bass & lets not even mention The Wall, Whoah! that sure is a busy layered composition.

While listening to Jack Johnson's LP in between days ( a favourite of mine due to its simplicity & the quality of production) was the decay in the cymbals, which although has always been nice & sustained, now seem to shimmer & decay more slowly & evenly.
Also the feeling of being in that small studio & hearing the actual room acoustics the musicians were playing in was a real treat.

** I noticed a slight increase in surface noise varying from pressing to pressing, I attribute this to the additional lowering of the noise floor, but when I listen through my loudspeakers I doubt it will be intrusive.

Certain female vocals which can sometimes sound bright / hard (Kate Bush, Suzanne Vega) now have a more focused & less edgy quality, do not confuse this with rounding off the treble but a more natural presentation if that makes sense.
I have always liked Suzanne Vega due to the cut glass nature of her voice & this is still the case, but now almost tangible.

Well that's where I am with your updates to date Pete, my sincere thanks for all of your research & hard work which has made another music lover happy & smile into the early hours & I suspect will continue this weekend.
Thank you again.

[phonomac]

....... Delrin is used for making all kinds of stuff including gears also delrin balls are grade one the highest grade you can get for roundness and smoothness, the ceramic balls are grade 5 , the steel balls are normaly grade 10 , unless it is aspecial order and 4 times the cost of grade 10 .......

Just need to make a slight correction here, Delrin balls are graded in thousandths of an inch, so a grade 1 ball is round to within 1 thou, which is approximately 25 microns. Ceramic balls, certainly silicon nitride ones, are graded in microns so a grade 3 ball is round within 3 microns.

[alphaGT]

I've got some styrene sheets in many thicknesses, from 0.010" to 0.080" Just about every hundredth. Very easy to cut, sand and shape, I may experiment with a damper made from it. Something else I've wanted to experiment with is the "Soundsmith EZ Mount Headshell Mounting Kit", https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-a...-headshell-kit
It's not too expensive, but allows you to experiment with different materials and weights at the headshell. Brass, steel and nylon, and aluminum I think? One could buy small screws from eBay made from different stuff, and conduct your own experiment, but the shipping would probably bring you near the cost of this kit anyway.

As far as replacing the main bearing, the worst case I can imagine is it would eat up the bearing. So no big deal, if that happens just put the steel bearing back in. I imagine the Delrin is pretty tough stuff. And ceramic is super hard, as long as you don't hit it with a hammer? Seems pretty safe to me.


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[gwernaffield]

Hi i think the easy way out of that use the longer Nylon bolts and use several nuts to make the head on the nylon bolt higher and less weight , so it would only cost abou $4 off ebay ,
and if one snaps just replace with another ,the other way out is to make the damper with 2 slots that carry on to one end so you can do a fast chage with out fear of damage to the cartridge ,by sliding what ever you decide to use for the damper into place with out the need of taking the cartridge off ,the other thing you can look for is computer case thumb screws which go from m2.5 to m6 on ebay

Peter Ledermann of Sound-Smith has said that nylon screws can help reduce resonances that contribute to sibilance

properties of delryn/acetal Strong and stiff
• Excellent machinability
• Good dimensional stability
• Low moisture absorption
• Excellent wear properties in both wet and dry environments
• Low friction
• Good chemical resistance

Product Applications
• Bearings and bushings
• Pump and valve parts
• Manifolds
• Gears
• Jigs and fixtures
• Packaging machinery parts
• Food processing machinery parts
• Electrical components
Torlon is used in the following
•Chemical Resistant
•Creep Resistant
•Ductile
•Fatigue Resistant
•Flame Retardant
•Good Electrical Properties
•High Heat Resistance
•High Temperature Strength
•Low Temperature Toughness
•Ultra High Impact Resistance
•Wear Resistant
Uses
•Aircraft Applications
•Automotive Applications
•Bushings
Connectors
Electrical Parts
•Electrical/Electronic Applications
•Fasteners
•Film
•Machine/Mechanical Parts
•Oil/Gas Applications
•Semiconductor Molding Compounds
•Thrust Washer
RoHS Compliance
•RoHS Compliant
these are High Grade Bearing balls that are with in a tolerance of .002 mm they contain PTFE but the PTFE ones are 100% ptfe and are the same grade as the Torlon and Delrin ,

[alphaGT]

Hi i thing the easy way out of that use the longer Nylon bolts and use several nuts to make the head on the nylon bolt higher and less weight , so it would only cost abou $4 off ebay ,
and if one snaps just replace with another ,the other way out is to make the damper with 2 slots that carry on to one end so you can do a fast chage with out fear of damage to the cartridge ,by sliding what ever you decide to use for the damper into place with out the need of taking the cartridge off ,the other thing you can look for is computer case thumb screws which go from m2.5 to m6 on ebay

Peter Ledermann of Sound-Smith has said that nylon screws can help reduce resonances that contribute to sibilance

properties of delryn/acetal Strong and stiff
• Excellent machinability
• Good dimensional stability
• Low moisture absorption
• Excellent wear properties in both wet and dry environments
• Low friction
• Good chemical resistance

Product Applications
• Bearings and bushings
• Pump and valve parts
• Manifolds
• Gears
• Jigs and fixtures
• Packaging machinery parts
• Food processing machinery parts
• Electrical components

I found a source for Delryn and Teflon material, from a wood working site actually. For making router table jigs and saw fences. Rockwell Inc., affordable! But it's also amazing what one can find on eBay, nylon screws in any shape you can imagine! The trick is knowing how to do a proper search. The styrene sheets I've got where made for modeling . So easily shaped and worked, and glued, into anything you want, one could make a whole turntable out of it if they wanted! But it is softer than Delryn. It would not Suffice for any bearing surface.

I've been looking into replacing many aluminum parts with brass. I replaced the foot cups with brass and made a noticeable improvement in bass solidity. I see a few threaded parts on my tonearm that I could find brass screws to replace. But I still want to try your Delryn ball bearing in the main bearing! As soon as I get some other projects out of the way, I'll let you know how that goes.


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[gwernaffield]

Hi Russel , i hope you manage too ,it realy does work , I am trying to find some torlon bearing balls, size 7/32 but i can only find the 6mm ones which i am going to try , if any one can help please let me know , as i have been told to try them instead of Delrin ones
cheers peter

update i have been running the delrin ball now for 2 weeks and have no problems , i am still waiting on the torlon 6mm to arrive, i can get some 7/32 but the cost is very high at £1. per ball, so it has put me off trying to buy the correct size for now, as i dont want a lot left in the draw ,

[gwernaffield]

Hi I have now found a supplier of all plastic balls, 7 /32 are 39p plus vat , but postage is £7.70 next day or £3.50 1st clast
PTFE solid ball is 83p plus vat and the postage, i have , 3 x 6mm and 6torlon 7/32 spare , hi i have now got some PTFE 7/32 which are £1.50 each , whch is what i paid , i have run a ptfe ball for the past 10hrs solid and no wear to the ball , at all , just pure music out of the Michell , as it now does not have a steel ball grinding on a steel shaft , but a friction resistant ball which is quieter than the steel ball that must have tranfairred sound waves through out the deck , if you want to try just drop me a email and pay the cost that is not a dealer price , but is a price what i have paid , peter
suppliers of the bearing balls below , Torlon
®
4301 extruded PAI is primarily used for wear and friction parts. It offers a very low expansion rate, low coefficient of friction and exhibits little or no slip-
stick in use. Torlon
®
4301's flexural modulus of 1,000,000 psi is higher than most other advanced engineering plastics. This grade excels in severe service wear
applications such as non- lubricated bearings, seals, bearing cages and reciprocating compressor partsthese are a precision Ball used in medical applications , etc ,


7/32” diameter Torlon @ £0.39 each, ex works – stock item.
7/32 diameter PTFE @£0.83 each .ex works -stock item
Postage @ £3.50
Pricing excl. VAT

[alphaGT]

So glad to hear of your improvements! And the great effect they e had.


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