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Thread: Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

  1. #381
    Join Date: Mar 2019

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 9
    I'm Steve.

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    Hi Pete,

    Totally agree with your logic and ethics about ‘value for money’ and awareness of supply versus demand, what will the customer pay!!!

    I don’t think for 1 minute there is any doubt about the pylons ‘value for money’ – period.

    You mention VITON ‘O’ Rings, I was looking at those myself the other day, hence I am somewhat confused with your pricing structure, as the VITON Rings are (as expected) more expensive then NBR but 200 more, surely some mistake. Anyway, I had a look just now on the Net at a company called Eastern Seals; they are a UK based supplier their address is easternseals.co.uk, I notice they were selling genuine Du-Pont VITON V75 Rings (27,6mm x 2,4mm) for 0.2068 for batches <100. Therefore 18 x 0.2068 = 3.7224, which is a far cry from the >200 you mentioned, obviously with larger batch orders the price reduces.

    I just wonder if perhaps you mis-interpreted the prices being quoted.

    They do sell some very expensive Rings at approx 8 each, but they are for encapsulated Rings which are not suitable anyway.

    I hope this helps?

    Very best regards,

    Steve

  2. #382
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: wales

    Posts: 432
    I'm peter.

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    yes I talked to Eastern seals, they have said the NBR will be fine but if they are in direct sunlight UV would play apart and to use EDPM which I have just ordered off them,, I also am aware of the problems of supply for different O rings, , the 200 O rings from SME ,, I am not sure how many they use is it around 8 per tower at 8 -9 each ,, unless I have misread the advert I just never followed that up ,,that is were the 200 came from not to mislead any one,
    https://www.analogueseduction.net/sm...sion-band.html
    the sme 20/2 taking 32 rings in 4 towers,

    The Viton ones would not be suitable due to the stretch needed,, , ,, if the answer was simple every one would be doing them , with the design of the Michell having so many different size holes,,, with out a very costly solution one that would need Einstein to install them,,, they are what they are just a spring replacement , one which I will always help with, in my opinion are far better than the springs, , the O rings have been tested over 3 years, if problems have been brought to my attention I will always look again
    but as I am not selling them they are bought through True Point engineering and true point audio, I have talked to them and will be calling in the morning as well,, also if you would like Steve I will send you some EDPM ones as soon as they are available , I have just ordered them off Eastern but have to wait for the pro former to arrive,,and then pay an wait again ,
    ATB
    pete
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 16-05-2019 at 15:01.

  3. #383
    Join Date: Mar 2019

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 9
    I'm Steve.

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    Hi Pete,

    The Rings made of EDPM material appears to be the way forward. Reading the specs from the Eastern Seals website, the Rings tick the right boxes in terms of function, i.e. resistance to UV, tear/stretch resistance, thus IMHO would be better suited to the Pylons design than NBR.

    I would be interested in a set of these Rings; however, I would prefer the next size up to the 28,50mm you currently supply.

    The reason being is for my deck the Nuts have bottomed out on the Adjuster Thread, so I cannot lower the sub-chassis any further, fortunately, I don’t need to go any lower, but I would prefer the Nut to be positioned in the middle of the thread length rather than the bottom.

    No one else has mentioned this on the forum, so I am assuming that the issue is unique to my deck. My installation has the drive belt at 90 degrees to both the motor and platter spindles, so I am satisfied there is nothing wrong with my set-up.

    The problem may be due to the fact that I previously had the solid imperial Adjuster, which has been replaced with the 2 piece Adjuster which you (Michell) supplied with your Pylons kit. It might also be due to my deck being an Export model; it may have slightly different depth of holes, whatever, the problem is not unsurmountable, and should be easily resolved with slightly larger (longer) Rings.

    Cheers,

    Steve

  4. #384
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 5,077
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Allen View Post
    Hi Pete,

    The Rings made of EDPM material appears to be the way forward. Reading the specs from the Eastern Seals website, the Rings tick the right boxes in terms of function, i.e. resistance to UV, tear/stretch resistance, thus IMHO would be better suited to the Pylons design than NBR.

    I would be interested in a set of these Rings; however, I would prefer the next size up to the 28,50mm you currently supply.

    The reason being is for my deck the Nuts have bottomed out on the Adjuster Thread, so I cannot lower the sub-chassis any further, fortunately, I don’t need to go any lower, but I would prefer the Nut to be positioned in the middle of the thread length rather than the bottom.

    No one else has mentioned this on the forum, so I am assuming that the issue is unique to my deck. My installation has the drive belt at 90 degrees to both the motor and platter spindles, so I am satisfied there is nothing wrong with my set-up.

    The problem may be due to the fact that I previously had the solid imperial Adjuster, which has been replaced with the 2 piece Adjuster which you (Michell) supplied with your Pylons kit. It might also be due to my deck being an Export model; it may have slightly different depth of holes, whatever, the problem is not unsurmountable, and should be easily resolved with slightly larger (longer) Rings.

    Cheers,

    Steve
    Yeah Steve...I don't think there are two decks the same made by Michell. The o-ring length issue, was disscused at some point and again, it was a case of finding a happy medium for the Gyro and the Orbe....This issue was well tested by the owners of the Gyros and the Orbes before the o-ring length was settled upon. A different thickness o-ring was supplied with the Orbe kit, because of the weight difference in the platter, but that strange law, the law of sod, there is going to be a one off, where something else will be required to suit said one off..
    'ANSOM IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Sugden Headmaster headphone/pre-amp, Class D power amp, Roksan Darius speakers, REL Storm III, Target R4 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  5. #385
    Join Date: Mar 2019

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 9
    I'm Steve.

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    Hi Alan,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I appreciate it has been a nightmare for you guys developing the pylon design, a constant battle with Michell’s lack of good quality control management. I clearly have the deck with the relationship of the thread to the sub-chassis being the issue, rather than the sizes of the holes which was the lion’s share of Pete’s problems, as you mention, there’s always one!!!

    Cheers,

    Steve

  6. #386
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 18,398
    I'm Neil.

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    I have a Mk1 SME Model 20 with all the original O rings, never replaced and all functioning as should be. No sagging etc, TT stays level when set up.
    Regards Neil

    System 1 (Living Room) : Vinyl: AMG Giro Turntable, AMG Giro Reference PSU, AMG 9W2 Tonearm, AMG Reference Armcable, Air Tight PC3 MC Cartridge PhonoStage: Passlabs Xono Digital: Esoteric P5 SACD Transport and Esoteric P 5 DAC, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Computer Audio: Veracity Audio Mystra DAC + HP laptop + iFi Audio i Power, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug Tuner:Kenwood KT 7020 Cassette Tape: Nakamichi CR5e Amplification: Pre-Amplifier Meridian G02 Power-Amplifier Meridian G56 Speakers: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 Audio Cabling: Signal - Atlas Mavros, Audience AU24 Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mains Distribution: Mark Grant Distribution Blocks, Mark Grant DC Blocker Equipment Tables: Target Audio B series + Track Audio Isolation Spikes Isolation/ Platforms: Bright Star Audio Isonodes, BASE 01, SSC Platforms.

    System 2 (Music Room) : Vinyl: Turntable 1 Loricraft Garrard 401 Turntable + SME 5 Tonearm, Graham IC70 Tonearm Cable + VDH MC10 cartridge Turntable 2 Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 Tonearm + VDH Frog Gold Cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU Turntable 3 SME Model 20 Turntable + Graham Phantom Tonearm + Graham IC70 Tonearm Cable, Ortofon MC5200 Cartridge PhonoStage: Balanced Audio Technology VK10se Digital: Moon Andromeda CD Player, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio Player Computer Audio: AMR DP777 DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi Audio i Power + JKenny JKSPIDIF + Wireworld Starlight USB Tuners: Kenwood 8300 Tuner, Revox B760 Tuner, Leak Troughline Tuner + EAR Stereo Decoder, Magnum Dynalab Signal Sleuth FM Amplifier ReelToReel Tape: Revox B77 mk 2, Revox A77 mk3, Sony TC-377 Cassette Tape: Nakamichi DR10 Pre-Amplifier: Balanced Audio Technology VK52se Power-Amplifier: Music Reference RM200 mk1 Speakers: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 Audio Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Kimber KCAG, Audio Note ANVs, Barry Hunt Cables Speaker - XLO Type 6. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains Distribution: Mark Grant and Russ Andrews Equipment Tables: Clear Light Audio Aspekt Tacks Isolation/Platform: SSC, Bright Star Audio Isonodes, Naim Frame Record Cleaner: Hanns Audio


    System 3 (Bed Room) - CD Player Marantz CD7, Headphone Amplifier: Audio Valve RKV2 OTL Valve Headphones: Grado GS 1000, Sennheiser 560 Ovation2, Sennheiser 410SL

  7. #387
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: wales

    Posts: 432
    I'm peter.

    Default

    the system SME use is different ,,the pete's pylons which do not have the weight to contend with ,,Like the sme does,, I have found a set up manual on the Web ,do SME have an internal damper to help with the weight,,,

    where the Michell does not need that ,, having a cast lightweight chassis,, in the past 2 years of using this design I have not had a problem ,,,I have always asked if any one has,,with always being told everything is fine,, the O rings stretches and then settles down after a week,or 2 ,, if I send them out with too longer O Ring they would bottom out ,with most users just placing the Motor pod on a piece of rubber or sorbothane,, thank you for helping in this debate ,, it is the only way forward , ,
    ATB pete

  8. #388
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: West Yorkshire

    Posts: 192
    I'm Andy.

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    Just playing a few albums tonight as the wife is away this weekend and eyeballed the pylons and the nut is around 3/4 down on the thread so all good.
    Also checked the rings and none are showing any signs of getting more brittle (also checked the level and not budged).
    My TT is in a back room with no sunlight which probably helps

    Still think they are the best upgrade to the Orbe or Gyro.
    Well done Peter
    Main system:

    Digital.
    Philips DCC 730.
    Analogue.
    Michell Orbe with arm decoupling kit & Pete's Pylons. AudioNote Arm 1 V2. Goldring Elite MC and Firebottle OTP MKII Phono Amp
    Lenco L75 in Birch ply plinth. Linn Basik Plus. A&R P77 cart (Paratrace by Expert) VSPC MM Phono Amp
    Network Player.
    Raspberry PI plus IQAudio DAC+ plus Pi NAS Server
    Amp.
    Pure Sound A30
    Speakers
    Reiver Jenna floor standers
    HeadPhones.
    Sennheiser HD545 Ref, HD600, HD477
    Backup Speakers.
    Heybrook HB1, TDL RTL2, Some home made concotion...

  9. #389
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: wales

    Posts: 432
    I'm peter.

    Default

    The Pete's pylons, I see as a long term upgrade and not just affordable upgrade,,for all owners ,, it has been said they are an essential upgrade to the Michell Gyro And Orbe users,, with the result and comments all positive results,, the debate about O rings has been a positive one, NBR is the best one to use,, but the option of EDPM is there as well,,

    The 200 is for the Full kit and requires the owner to measure the holes in the chassis,, will have all the parts in the Kit picture

    The 130 is not a kit ,, will not require the owner to measure the chassis , but will fit with they only 2 bushes fitted NO bearings , No sorbothane pads or sorbothane top washer,, just the pylon it self ,,

    A quality product in a plain white cardboard Box,,

    This is a long term upgrade that will need servicing ,,the same as the springs,, I have been told they Bring a great benefit to the Gyro and orbe by the users , but I do to have test equipment or graphs to explain why ,,only ears , and now a lot of them

    'On a gyro it’s a significant amount compared to the cost of a deck, but the benefits gained make it a bargain. On an Orbe it’s comparatively less but the benefits are just as great.' from a happy user ,,

    ATB pete

  10. #390
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: wales

    Posts: 432
    I'm peter.

    Default

    please note they are purchased through http://www.true-point.audio/

    I do not do any other upgrades at this moment in time,, The Acrylic Ring is bought off ebay 114mm diameter x 12mm with a 80mm hole in the center ,, bought off wholesaleplastics,, on ebay ,, use the maichell arm board to drill 3 x5mm drill holes, and then add

    a rubber gadget , 3 longer bolts,, and use the same spacer as with the Michell arm board ,, I do not make them ,, and will not supply them,

    I have a solid acrylic arm board that will be on test in the next couple of months,, the cost has to be worked out ,, made out of cast acrylic ,, for sme,, these are still on the drawing board ,, Pete's gyro and orbe suspension upgrade pylons made by true point engineering ,,for the j a michell orbe and gyro .are for sale,

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