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  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales

    Posts: 695
    I'm peter.

    Default Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

    Hi i have just done some very cheap upgrades that really work to my gyro , changed the suspension tower ball bearing to Delrin 7/32 and that made a great difference the cost we £2.88 for 10
    Bought a ceramic ball bearing and replaced the 7/32 steal one with the ceramic one cost was about £6 , for 5 , added zx1 super lube to the oil a friction reducer cost was £6.90, this helped a lot in reducing the drag of the main bearing so much so i had to adjust the speed with the Nc power supply , also made a ptfe cartridge damper out of 1.5 mm sheet Teflon, cost £5
    all bought off eBay , and all work the first upgrade helped in the voicing, it cleared things up , the changing of the main bearing to a grade 5 7/32 bearing made a lot of difference as the ball is more rounder then the standard ball. so helped with any noise coming from the bearing , the PTFE damper worked great that made the bass have a bit more extension , i also bought some 50mm M5 Nylon cheese head screws£4 to replace the steel ones in the arm board , had a Delrin spacer made to go under the arm board a bit like the Gert Pederson one but cost less than £8 , the machining done on that by the supplier who charged me £10 for doing that so the total cost with machining was £18 all in , i also used nylon 2.5mm screws to lock the cartridge onto the tone arm , so the only thing that 'rings' is the cartridge , also added some 1.5mm sound dead matt to the inside of the tower covers, and 3 'o' rings to the bottom of them
    At each stage of these cheap Mods which can be reversed and not cost a fortune if you don’t like the results, but everything to me made a difference, to the sound quality and the depth of sound , i was hearing at very little cost. All bought off eBay
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 18-07-2017 at 10:32. Reason: spell check

  2. #2
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,656
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Excellent post Peter.

    As a Michell owner myself I've dabbled with various upgrades alomg the way, haven't thouht to replace the steel ball bearings.

    can you give a link so I can pick some up mate?
    thanks.

    oh,
    do you have the Orbe screw down clamp?
    Dampning the inside of it with isodamp compound made amworthwhile improvement.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales

    Posts: 695
    I'm peter.

    Default

    Hi i don’t use a clamp , i have a great big 700grm weight ,got fed up with pushing the dam clamp on and off and then buying the screw down version all the parts i used were off eBay , i made spacers and drilled them off using the std arm board , they are similar to what gert pederson arm board looks like but with the use of Delrin and nylon bolts (chees head screws) no need for 'o' rings , as nothing should travel down the nylon , before if you tapped the deck ,the tone arm would pick it up as the connecting bolts allowed it , but now i can tap the deck and no extra noise out of the speakers , only when the record is on the deck and playing should you hear anything ,
    the little peace of 1.5 mm 18mm x18mm PTFE has stopped a lot you can either buy them already made off eBay for £20 or make one for £2 , as i said all the stuff was bought off eBay , some i had to wait for as they came from china grade 5 ceramic ball bearing , the plastic ones Delrin http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEARING-OP...MLtlBRE0h0_taQ
    all the little tweaks or upgrades done dont require you to drill or damage the orbe or the gyro in any way ,even the use of Blu tack to keep spacers in place all can be removed so not to damage the deck
    i had to cheat a little bit over the weight i put a double pulley on the motor and bought some 10mmx10mm x 1mm stainless springs to go under the suspension legs although they do not quite touch the chasse just stuck on with blue tack ,they stop any excessive bounce , which may damage the suspension due to the extra 750grm weight , so far it should kick the orbes bottom as i have had 2 orbes in the past with sme V on ,both never sounded a sweet and as clear as the gyro i have now ,
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 18-06-2017 at 18:42. Reason: spell check

  4. #4
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,656
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Fascinating stuff Peter, have dabbled a lot tweaking my 'Gorbe' deck over the years and you've done stuff I hadn't even thought of!

    Sent you a PM.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  5. #5
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    Fantastic stuff Peter, I am a tinkerer too. DIY can be every bit as effective as store bought, and quite often better. I'd love to see some pictures to help me visualize some of these upgrades you've managed! I'm guessing many of your improvements could work on any 'table, not just a Mitchell.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales

    Posts: 695
    I'm peter.

    Default pictures

    stripped down .jpgtt.jpgP1000843.jpgP1000854.JPGhome made spacer .JPGfor t

    hi i have atteched some pictures , as the odyssey is not a normal deck to begin with , it has the orbe case and a spider , the main part being full of densodamp
    there was not much left to do ,
    so i have made a home made spacer ,which i had machined of a company on ebay that also supplied the material at £18 , it isthe same diameter as the michell arm board with a 85mm hold cut in the centre , by what ever thickness you need, it is held into place by Nylon Cheese head screws 40 to 50 mm long and m5 thread , also the screws that hold the Cartridge on are nylon to save weight,
    i made the damper out of PTFE sheet , less that £3 ,
    there are 3 20mm x 1mm "o"rings on the bottom of the covers for the suspension,
    also some 1.5mm sound damp the same as you use in cars , inside the tubes ,
    the rest was the ball bearings and changed to ceramic ,then to delrin , the to torlon and now PTFE for the main thrust bearing
    3 delryn for the suspension ,

    i later added a very expensive MJ12 Matt and the weight , as i got fed up unscrewing and screwing the clamp on ,i had to put 6 10mm x 10mm x1.5 mm springs under the suspension
    towers to stop any excessive bounce due to the extra weight the TT mat and weight has added ,
    i have since used the sign stand offs to support the rear corners of the case with the deck being a 3 point support the rear is left to do its own thing , i noticed that the corners were sagging and causing the arm to be pulled to that direction so i bought a glass sign standoff , which cost £6 , it acted like a jack and is supporting the corner of the case , but not so much as to lift it off the designed feet ,they are made of aluminum , and come in diffrent sizes and colours ,

    peter
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 18-07-2017 at 10:40. Reason: added more information

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 12,011
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Excellent post....I'm using a logic DM101 turntable...I've purchased the Delrin balls and the ceramic ones too...I've got a sheet of teflon1.5mm thick...and also ordered the nylon nuts and screws for the cartridge..(Goldring Eroica LX)...I've replaced the main bearing with one of the Delrin Balls...what a difference...very little noise now and all I here is the music...I'm going to cut out a damper for the cart tomorrow and fix the cart on with nylon nuts and screws...it can only get better..Don't think I'll even bother with the ceramic ball bearings.....the Delrin ball is staying where it is....Excellent tweaks Peter..many thanks...

    P.S....anyone with a Logic DM101...the bearing is 6mm..

    I got mine here x5 for £2.40..

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEARING-OP...72.m2749.l2649
    Last edited by mad-moon; 23-06-2017 at 16:08.
    'ANDSOME IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER. Barney Milne

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Benz M2 Ruby cantilever, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Densen D20, Densen D30, Cambridge Audio 840A V2 integrated, Pioneer SX-N30AE Network Stereo Receiver, Roksan Darius speakers, Technics speakers, Canon speakers, Bastanis Dragonfly Horns, REL Storm III sub, Target R1 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  8. #8
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales

    Posts: 695
    I'm peter.

    Default

    hi the delrin balls are for the suspension towers , the cermic ball is for the main bearing , the size of the balls used are all 7/32 that is the correct size ,not 6mm as they are 2 big according to the michell specs , also cause excess wobble ,I i have attached pictures of every thing i bought of eBay ,
    cheers
    ptfe and o rings .JPGball bearings .jpgcartridge bolts.JPGdelrin spacer and nylon bolts .JPG
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 23-06-2017 at 21:33.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 12,011
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Further to the Delrin ball staying in....On Peter's recommendation...I have now put in a Torlon bearing...(sourced and supplied by Peter)..which is a higher grade harder more durable plastic ball as my main bearing....The sound has lifted again, incredible as it may sound...my tt has never sounded better...I'm waiting of a ptfe ball coming from Peter...to try out...which I'm looking forward to...Thanks Peter for all your help and advice...and for supplying me the bearings...top man...cheeerz Peter....Alan...



    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon View Post
    Excellent post....I'm using a logic DM101 turntable...I've purchased the Delrin balls and the ceramic ones too...I've got a sheet of teflon1.5mm thick...and also ordered the nylon nuts and screws for the cartridge..(Goldring Eroica LX)...I've replaced the main bearing with one of the Delrin Balls...what a difference...very little noise now and all I here is the music...I'm going to cut out a damper for the cart tomorrow and fix the cart on with nylon nuts and screws...it can only get better..Don't think I'll even bother with the ceramic ball bearings.....the Delrin ball is staying where it is....Excellent tweaks Peter..many thanks...

    P.S....anyone with a Logic DM101...the bearing is 6mm..






    I got mine here x5 for £2.40..

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEARING-OP...72.m2749.l2649
    'ANDSOME IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER. Barney Milne

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Benz M2 Ruby cantilever, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Densen D20, Densen D30, Cambridge Audio 840A V2 integrated, Pioneer SX-N30AE Network Stereo Receiver, Roksan Darius speakers, Technics speakers, Canon speakers, Bastanis Dragonfly Horns, REL Storm III sub, Target R1 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  10. #10
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: north wales

    Posts: 695
    I'm peter.

    Default

    PTFE ball now up and running , and wow , that is all i can say , i have sent some madmoon , vintageaxman , and a couple of others i have some spare ones if any one wants to try this , NO harm has been
    done to any TT during the little tweaks , and every Tweak can be returned to factory spec ,if you dont like them but i would reccomend the ZX1 extra lube and the PTFE ball ,

    peter

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