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Thread: Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

  1. #231
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: wales

    Posts: 421
    I'm peter.

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    i did speak to michell about the hole sizes , and was advised to make them to the latest hole sizes 33.7 x 28mm but the problem with that was the chassis would be allowed to move, so they can only be made to the size given , as with most things it is not that easy, each hole will be a different size, so if the 34.7 to 35mm , and the 28.5 can be 28.1 to 28.9, but with all the added rubber pads and the added washer to the underside of the platter , also now the down force has gone from the springs , every thing is a bit taller , you may have problems with the acrylic lid, catching the top of the arm , the deck needs to be level , as you know the feet form part of the suspension on the gyro, so the deck must be sitting on them to level it properly , if you have put some
    after market feet /anti vibration pads, feet , or any other support , you need to consider the height of the motor pod as well, to get the correct height of the belt , and not to try and to adjust it out with the suspension support ,
    the adjuster is meant for the adjustment of the suspension to level the deck , with the pylon replacement you may run out of room for adjustment due to the length of the o-rings supplied, if you need smaller or longer let me know i will send some at cost and post ,
    the bearing ball is 7/32 no bigger or smaller,
    we have added to the height of the small shaft by adding the sorbothane, this will squash down to about 2mm , so a 2 mm pad must be added to the base of the motor pod , to maintain the belt height , if you use a heavy Puck this will stretch the o-rings and you will need to have smaller ones, to keep every thing at the correct height
    i am always on line so if there is a problem it is sorted, but i cannot take into account every problem , adding and then tweaking will change the length of the o-rings needed, and is out of my control, as ever if you want your money back just email me and send them back i will refund as soon as they arrive back , less the cost of post , i am not a retail business all of these are made to the sizes given ,it is still a hobby ,
    but i cannot cover any changes after they have been fitted , added spacers , added bit of sorbothane , added feet etc ,

  2. #232
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 1,596
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegwill View Post
    Hi Guys

    Well I had a play around today. Added some dampening around the arm pillar and the same on the motor side. I intended to add a thin layer under the lead, but I couldn’t seem to get it free. It seemed to be stuck on so I left it.

    One thing I did notice is that when I put the pylons back in place they made a clunking sound as they made contact with the acrylic base. I happened to have some ptfe washers, not the exact size, but big enough to go 3/4 of the way round so I cut them and spread them out to fit. Then when I refitted the pylons to the post they are supported off the acrilic base by the washers reducing the clunking sound.
    Does it help, not sure but it is only using the bearing at the top of the post and the ptfe washer at the bottom providing further decoupling which can only help.
    William,

    The pylons that slide onto the pylon towers do not touch the acrylic base, that is certainly the case with the correct ball bearings in place that the pylons slide onto, in the original set up they actually sit about .25mm above the acrylic. My understanding is that you have put some rubber/sorbothane between these bearings and the pylons so with the ball bearings in place it would have raised them higher away form the acrylic. Are you sure you have not lost the ball bearings out from the pylons? Are you also sure that you have not not raised the chassis so high that the plinth is not touching the arm if you close it and causing a clunk?

    I understand from Pete that you have a washer under the platter and can not now fit the nut, the nut must be on or you will have trerrible issues with the platter wobbling about which will be problematic in its on right. Also you may have raised the platter so much as to cause issues with belt alignment.

    Also note if you have raised the pylons too high you will loose adjustment allowing the chassis to come down low enough to be able to align the belt correctly in any case.

    My advice is to strip the deck down.

    1. Remove anything you have added to the pylons, rubber or other wise and fit the original ball bearings only to each pylons and then fit each one and see it they clear the acrylic, I will be very surprised it they do not. If that is ok fit your replacement ceramic balls in each and check again, if you have the right ones there should be no difference. If that is OK then add the sorborthane pad/rubber on top of the pylon tower and then fit the pylon slider over it with the ball bearing. I personally would not put anything more that this between the ball bearing in the pylon or you are likely to raise it too high and loose sufficient adjustment on the thread.

    2. If all of 1 above is OK then fit the felt washers so that they sit on the acrylic, then fit the new pylon suspension from Pete to the towers and wind them down so that they are near the bottom of the pylon threads, now fit the chassis and check they each move freely up and down and that each bottom nut fitted is flush to the bottom of the chassis.

    3. Fit your platter without any washer between the bearing and platter and do up the platter retaining nut. Now adjust the height of each pylon so that each is about 1-2mm above the felt pads, check the platter is perfectly level using a spirit level, you should be able to do so with the pylon adjustment on the nuts and everything should still be able to move up and down.

    4. Finally you now need to check the height of your motor spindle is correct, as I understand it you have alternative feet which the whole thing sits on which has slightly raised it off the original feet. So accurately measure the distance between your shelf and the original feet. I suggest you get some 1mm thick slivers of plastic and see how many will fit in the gap and then use feeler gauges for the last bit. Note down this measurement Xmm.

    5. So you now need to raise the drive motor Hmm, this will be by where Hmm = Xmm + Ymm, where Y equals the amount you have additionally raised the towers with by placing sorbothane/rubber between them and the ball bearing in the tower tops. So if you used 3 mm of sorbothane with the weight on them they will eat probably compress by 1-1.5mm. If it is a harder rubber then it will be close to the thickness of the rubber you have used. So having the Hmm measurement you can now create a pad to put under your motor together it to the correct height.

    Everything should now work fine.

    If you do subsequently put anything between the bearing and the platter then it needs to be very thin and allow you to do the nut up and whatever the thickness it is you need to add to the Hmm measurement.

    If you take your time and do everything carefully it should all be fine. If you have any issues getting the new bottom nuts to fit flush or if you find the pylons are sticking, as previously mentioned in this thread, then the holes in the chassis are not an exact equilateral triangle and/or the pylon centres to not match then properly. If this is the case then the bottom nuts will need minor adjustment to accommodate this. If this is the case then you need to speak with Pete, there are several ways to fix this.

    I hope this helps you sort your issues out.

    Regards

    Adrian
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


    Michel GyroDec (slightly modified), SME IV arm(special build virtually a V), Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Vienna Acoustics Mozart SE speakers, Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

  3. #233
    Join Date: Dec 2018

    Location: Cambridgeshire UK

    Posts: 15
    I'm William.

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    Hi AJSki2fly

    Thanks for the info. I won’t be able to check until next weekend. Like you I suspect something is amiss. I removed the rubber, so the possibility that the bearings have fallen out is a possibility, I wasn’t sure that it was making any difference. Anyway i’ll find out next week.

    Regarding the washer on top of the bearing, yes I do plan to find a thinner one, I have not detected any problem with the locking missing, yes true enough, the very edge does wobble if you touch it with your hand but when the record is playing there’s no difference that I can tell.

    I’ll let you know how I get on.

  4. #234
    Join Date: Mar 2019

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 9
    I'm Steve.

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    Hi Peter,
    I'm a new member of the forum, however, I have been following your posts on the design of the pylons with great interest.
    I own a Gyrodec (Export Model) which I purchased new in 1989.
    For some time, I have been considering up-grading the Adjuster and replacing the springs with the standard offering from Michell.
    The benefits being the two piece Adjuster, and replacing some rather tired springs, which would have provided an improvement.
    Being somewhat curious I searched the Net and noticed the Solid Air pylons, I thought they were rather expensive, and like you, felt they would offer even less lateral control than the existing spring arrangement, and then I came across your design.
    Now that you have ironed out all the problems, and gone as far as you could reasonably expect to go, I would be very interested in purchasing the 'kit' of parts you are offering.
    The only part of the 'kit' I would not be interested in is the ceramic ball for the spindle main bearing.
    Please could you provide me with price details, delivery times, and any measurements you require.

  5. #235
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: wales

    Posts: 421
    I'm peter.

    Default

    hello Steve i have sent Pm ,
    please any one who wants me just pm me do not leave messages on here as it is not an advert , it is a thread for cheap ( affordable ) upgrades to the Gyro or Orbe,,, it is not my own personal thread it is for every one on AOS ,to add too, even how to repair the paint on the chassis would be welcome,as i have taken several chips out of mine doing the upgrades adjusting parts etc and a lot of swear words involved , so if any one know how to repair the paint with out it costing the same as Michell please
    let us all into the secret ,

  6. #236
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 1,596
    I'm Adrian.

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    So yesterday the Skateboard Wheels arrived form China at the expensive cost of 12.50, the rubber inserts and 3mm Sorbothane had already arrived costing another 14 together.

    So initially I cut the rubber bobbins in half with a stanley knife, each half then fits in the hole in either side of the skateboard wheel. I then opened up the hole in one of the rubber bobbins using a 1/2" drill bit. You do not need to open it to much just enough so that the threaded part that you have unscrewed the foot from will screw into the rubber.

    I stripped the Gyrodec and carefully removed the metal feet and then screwed each new foot on. I then checked to see that the spider was level.

    Next I cut 3 circle of the 3mm sorbothane sheet the same size as the rubber bobbins and then affixed these in place with a small amount of super glue. The feet are then supported by sorbothane and then rubber, which makes good vibration isolation and also will stop the feet sliding around.

    Next was a simple mater to refit the pylons suspension towers and fit the chassis back, I then put it back on the shelf and fitted the platter, making sure I got it in the exact position I want it. I then carefully adjust the pylon height to ensure the bottom of the chassis was 1-2mm off the felt washers and checked the platter was perfectly level. Next was refit the cartridge and check platter speed.

    Note - I decided to remove my previously installed marble slab on sorbothane feet as I wanted to see how effective the new feet are on their own.

    So I put on and listened carefully to several of my test tracks and my conclusion is that the feet are virtually as good as using the Gyrodec with original feet sat on the marble isolation pad.So and excellent result.

    I also found a couple of free accelerometer apps for the iPhone and took some measurements. Firstly I place the iphone on the acrylic shelf and played a track that has quite a bit of bass and low end drum content. I then repeated this with the iPhone place on the platter, but I played the same music from a digital file, I also checked it was at the same volume. The results are interesting vibration in the x and y axis is virtually non-existent and in the z (up and down) there is a small amount of movement(vibration). If you compare the shelf values to the platter values and take one away from the other the vertical movement is roughly halved, so the new feet are doing their job. I wish I had taken measurements before stripping it down

    I have one further thought to improve naming even further and that is to get 3 25mm semi-circular sorbothane feet and cut them down so that they fit into the bottom hole of the skateboard wheels instead of the rubber and 3mm sorbothane pad, I am certain this will give even better results. I am in the process of coming up with a simple and cheap tool to cut the circular size of sorbothane needed, this will then be trimmed in height so that a small amount protrudes below the skateboard foot ensuring that there is enough so that the skateboard foot does not touch the shelf.





    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


    Michel GyroDec (slightly modified), SME IV arm(special build virtually a V), Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Vienna Acoustics Mozart SE speakers, Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

  7. #237
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: wales

    Posts: 421
    I'm peter.

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    looking good ,

  8. #238
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 1,596
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwernaffield View Post
    looking good ,
    Thanks Pete, still a few things to do, more arm board isolatio, waiting for rubber bushes, rubber to support the motor inside, and try out and test my mod for the new feet, and fit the sorbothane discs on the pylons.

    It seems never ending, but each little change seems to make a difference and so far its getting better, a bit change from the original sound. IMO opinion the biggest change has been due to your lovely pylon suspension and then the replacement of the metal feet.
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


    Michel GyroDec (slightly modified), SME IV arm(special build virtually a V), Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Vienna Acoustics Mozart SE speakers, Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

  9. #239
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 4,834
    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Thanks Pete, still a few things to do, more arm board isolatio, waiting for rubber bushes, rubber to support the motor inside, and try out and test my mod for the new feet, and fit the sorbothane discs on the pylons.

    It seems never ending, but each little change seems to make a difference and so far its getting better, a bit change from the original sound. IMO opinion the biggest change has been due to your lovely pylon suspension and then the replacement of the metal feet.
    Looking at your toneam..it looks to have the same issue as mine...it's flying in space....another inexpensive tweak, which takes little effort...is to put the rubber mounts under your acrylic spacer....which will allow you to bring your arm right down into the clamp...it has made a huge differencce with mine regards record surface noise...If you don't fancy the mounts, you could always put the three delrin posts back in..under the acrylic spacer/mount....

    [IMG]MOUNTS DISC by alan moon, on Flickr[/IMG]
    'ANSOM IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Sugden Headmaster headphone/pre-amp, Class D power amp, Roksan Darius speakers, REL Storm III, Target R4 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  10. #240
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 1,596
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mad-moon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Thanks Pete, still a few things to do, more arm board isolatio, waiting for rubber bushes, rubber to support the motor inside, and try out and test my mod for the new feet, and fit the sorbothane discs on the pylons.

    Looking at your toneam..it looks to have the same issue as mine...it's flying in space....another inexpensive tweak, which takes little effort...is to put the rubber mounts under your acrylic spacer....which will allow you to bring your arm right down into the clamp...it has made a huge differencce with mine regards record surface noise...If you don't fancy the mounts, you could always put the three delrin posts back in..under the acrylic spacer/mount....

    [IMG]MOUNTS DISC by alan moon, on Flickr[/IMG]
    I have been waiting to do this after addressing the TT isolation as much as I believe is possible, then will fit the rubber bushes under the acrylic arm spacer mounting plate so that I can then know what difference the rubbers make. I like to make incremental changes.

    By the way my understanding is that how the arm is fixed to a TT can have quite a dramatic impact on how it all sounds. Arms I believe are mainly designed to take vibration away from the head shell/cartridge, so if you mount it in a way that effects this it could have a positive or negative affect. Some arms I believe actually need to be mounted rigidly to the TT chassis, if you look at an SME TT with SME arm it is mounted rock solid, but then the SME chassis is a dirty great big heavy lump of laminated steel and aluminium designed to not vibrate. Unfortunately this is not the case with the Gyrodec or Orbe chassis so we are effectively trying to limit any vibration transmission into the arm mount, how good any change in mounting will be and what affect it may have on the arm I am not clear about in my mind. So for me I think I will have to rely on what I hear.
    Last edited by AJSki2fly; 14-03-2019 at 16:33.
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


    Michel GyroDec (slightly modified), SME IV arm(special build virtually a V), Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Vienna Acoustics Mozart SE speakers, Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

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