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Thread: Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

  1. #361
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: london

    Posts: 449
    I'm bob.

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    please note these are shipped with NBR o-rings, you can upgrade them if you want to ,, O-rings come in different compounds different strengths,, the size is 28.5 x 2mm for the gyro,se odyssey ,, 70 duro ,,,
    the orb i put thicker o rings on 29.5 x 2.5 or 30x 2.5,, to allow for the weight ,, they are shipped with the std version to help keep the cost down ,, o rings do perish over time and will need to be changed,, when needed,, if you need more just PM me they will only be the NBR ones your receive for the actual cost ,, no more added the springs on the gyro and orb need to be changed when a service is done,,

    atb
    pete
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 10-05-2019 at 13:54.

  2. #362
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 5,619
    I'm Alan.

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    Great stuff Peter...a wonderful design which works so so well....the o-rings you sent me are perfect and no problem if they do need to be changed at some point...but I envisage good longevity...and the cost to replace them should that time come will only be coppers anyway...atb Peter...Al..
    'ANSOM IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Sugden Headmaster headphone/pre-amp, Class AB VMP dual mono bullet power amp, Roksan Darius speakers, REL Storm III, Target R4 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  3. #363
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: london

    Posts: 449
    I'm bob.

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    Pete’s performance Pylons with Lattice Truss Suspension System a quality product available at Truepoint audio ,Truepoint precision engineers,, price starts from £130 to £200 custom,,full kits,, with all the parts you need to bring the best out of your J A Michell ORB and GIRO Turntable the custom kit below,, with all the part needed, the std version will not have the extra parts, just the suspension parts and o-rings,,
    cost of the custom kit £200 ,, cost of Standard £130,, no bearings or pads or extra o-rings in the std set ,,
    made by a quality engineering precision company ,,, In the UK ,,
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 11-05-2019 at 19:49.

  4. #364
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: london

    Posts: 449
    I'm bob.

    Default orbe se -r













    Orbe SE-R ,, spot the upgrade,,

    The use of the J A Michell name and their names for the decks are prohibited,, they own the Names For their decks,, it must be made clear that the Pete's Performance Pylons are made BY Truepoint Engineering and audio as an after market upgrade intended for use on J A MICHELL Suspended Turntables,, J A MICHELL DO NOT MAKE THEM have had no input to complete the design just to confirm the thread was a M10 x1
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 11-05-2019 at 11:33.

  5. #365
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: london

    Posts: 449
    I'm bob.

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    the reason for the above was i did not want to upset J A MICHELL , who asked that i made it clear they have nothing to do with the aftermarket suspension ,, which i have done after asking for their guidance,, the name's of the turntable they own ,, and are very protective on how they are used,, as i will need to buy products off them in the future,,,

  6. #366
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: london

    Posts: 449
    I'm bob.

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    Gyro Fitted with Pete's suspension , a fine Peter Riggle woody arm , From Oregon USA,


    pete

  7. #367
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: london

    Posts: 449
    I'm bob.

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    The price , the standard version is £130 with out extra o-rings , Bearing's and ptfe washers, sorbothane pads,, etc , and will only be in a one size fits all,,

    with the custom made ones having the full kit above,, also made to measure , parts,, with the need to measure the holes,,,£200

    pete's performance pylons made for use on the Michell Gyrodec and Orbedec by Truepoint engineering as a aftermarket upgrade to replace the oem springs,,


    pete

    all prices are plus post ,, which is looked at day by day ,, we post all around the world,,
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 13-05-2019 at 11:19.

  8. #368
    Join Date: Mar 2019

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 11
    I'm Steve.

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    Picking up on what Pete has mentioned regarding the ‘O’ Rings, I raised this topic with him as a concern for users in the medium/longer term of ownership. What users need to be aware of is the Rings are being deployed to perform a function they were not designed for, the Rings typically are a seal for fluid and air, and when installed sit in a groove to prevent the Ring from moving, but more importantly to control the deformation of the Ring cross section to ensure the Ring ‘seals’ over a reasonable length of time.

    Stating the obvious, all Rings will fail at some point; however, users should understand the failure mode process to avoid potential damage to their turntable.

    All Rings degrade from day 1 of usage, what drives the degradation is the environment they are working in i.e. highly corrosive fluid, temperature, etc. Within a relatively short space of time, the Rings will ‘set’ but still function (seal) which is why the groove housing the Ring is so important.

    The Pylon Rings will also ‘set’ but will still function, however, the next stage of Ring degradation is to go brittle/hard and then snap, and that is the concern I have, how long will it be before the Rings reach the point when failure is imminent?

    I notice in some of the earlier posts that some owners preferred to leave the suspension covers off as they liked the ‘industrial’ element of the design, personally, I would encourage owners to leave the covers on, the reason being dust, and UV will accelerate Ring degradation.

    I am not criticising Pete’s design (I purchased a set for myself) but merely wish to make owners aware that maintenance/servicing is required on a regular basis to prevent a disaster. I would suggest that every 3 months (minimum) compliance of the Rings are checked, if they have gone hard, replacement of all the Rings should be done ASAP, as the rotational torque (wow and flutter) coupled with the mass of the sub-chassis will likely snap the Rings in the horizontal plane!!!

    I have suggested to Pete that it may be worth Blue Point conducting some trials with higher spec Rings to minimise the risk of a failure, IMHO, the increased costs of higher specification Rings would be a price worth paying, aerospace quality Rings is what I would be considering as an alternative.

    Finally, Pete’s design is not flawed, SME have exactly the same problem with their turntables, which is probably why they use a very expensive Ring material for their ‘pylon’ which I believe is reinforced through the centre of the Ring with fibre.

    I hope this helps?

  9. #369
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: North East

    Posts: 5,619
    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Allen View Post
    Picking up on what Pete has mentioned regarding the ‘O’ Rings, I raised this topic with him as a concern for users in the medium/longer term of ownership. What users need to be aware of is the Rings are being deployed to perform a function they were not designed for, the Rings typically are a seal for fluid and air, and when installed sit in a groove to prevent the Ring from moving, but more importantly to control the deformation of the Ring cross section to ensure the Ring ‘seals’ over a reasonable length of time.

    Stating the obvious, all Rings will fail at some point; however, users should understand the failure mode process to avoid potential damage to their turntable.

    All Rings degrade from day 1 of usage, what drives the degradation is the environment they are working in i.e. highly corrosive fluid, temperature, etc. Within a relatively short space of time, the Rings will ‘set’ but still function (seal) which is why the groove housing the Ring is so important.

    The Pylon Rings will also ‘set’ but will still function, however, the next stage of Ring degradation is to go brittle/hard and then snap, and that is the concern I have, how long will it be before the Rings reach the point when failure is imminent?

    I notice in some of the earlier posts that some owners preferred to leave the suspension covers off as they liked the ‘industrial’ element of the design, personally, I would encourage owners to leave the covers on, the reason being dust, and UV will accelerate Ring degradation.

    I am not criticising Pete’s design (I purchased a set for myself) but merely wish to make owners aware that maintenance/servicing is required on a regular basis to prevent a disaster. I would suggest that every 3 months (minimum) compliance of the Rings are checked, if they have gone hard, replacement of all the Rings should be done ASAP, as the rotational torque (wow and flutter) coupled with the mass of the sub-chassis will likely snap the Rings in the horizontal plane!!!

    I have suggested to Pete that it may be worth Blue Point conducting some trials with higher spec Rings to minimise the risk of a failure, IMHO, the increased costs of higher specification Rings would be a price worth paying, aerospace quality Rings is what I would be considering as an alternative.

    Finally, Pete’s design is not flawed, SME have exactly the same problem with their turntables, which is probably why they use a very expensive Ring material for their ‘pylon’ which I believe is reinforced through the centre of the Ring with fibre.

    I hope this helps?
    A good post Steve...I have been testing these pylons for a long time now, watching in particular the o-rings with vigilance, as this is the only, albeit a very small one, weak point, where the Pylons are concerned. The rings are holding very well, retaining their elasticity. Initially over the first few weeks, I had to adjust them as the chassis did sink a little due to a small amount of stretching, as the o-rings settled, but beyond this point there hasn't been any problems. I will of course keep my eye on them for the inevitable, which you have mentioned. There are 6 o-rings per pylon however and find it extremely unlikely, that all six are going to fail at once, which could be considered an early warning system. I like the idea of the o-rings with the inner core being fibre, stating the obvious, They are the safety net so to speak, in the event of the rubber failing..
    'ANSOM IN THE SUMMER..'ORIBBLE IN THE WINTER

    Cambridge Audio CXN, Seagate nas drive, Michell Gyrodec SE, SME309, Denon DL103, Primare R32, Sugden Headmaster headphone/pre-amp, Class AB VMP dual mono bullet power amp, Roksan Darius speakers, REL Storm III, Target R4 speaker stands, Atacama Equinox.

  10. #370
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: london

    Posts: 449
    I'm bob.

    Default

    HI all as I said I had to draw a line on the o-rings due to cost I use NBR , it was to make them accessible to users where the O-rings can be cheap enough to replace,, SME are made in house ,the cost of which is between £8 -9 ,when I looked the other day ,, Sme using a damper,,, I do not no anything else, only what I have read on the Internet ,I have never seen how they are attached, or want to take it any further ,, it is a turntable I just have to dream about ,,

    The 6 O rings came about after using 3 , then 4 and then 6 , the amount is limited by the size of the Nut,, Users wanting to put the cover back onto them,, all have a bearing on how many can be used ,slots or hole's you would need to make the top nut bigger , but then you are limited to the way the base fits ,, the 6 making them stable and if one or 2 break nothing will happen ,

    i did try thicker o-rings but the deck was very solid also if they are thicker than 3 mm the base may be come unstable, and the same aging process, Michell Recommend the springs be changed on a service ,

    I will try and find the cost effective way to upgrade the o-rings with a fiber core, some things you just cannot get in the UK ,, if you know of a source that I can buy them from at a reasonable price , please let me know,,
    I did try silicone o-rings but the stretch was too great , and they snap easy , one thing you could try is to place a sorbothane washer were the felt one sits, this would take a bit of pressure as well as any stray frequencies /noise off the bottom of the adjuster ,
    possibly change to VITON o rings, but will double check the cost , in the morning , I have left the choice upto the user ,due to the cost involved, and availability in the country of use

    NBR It provides a good balance of desirable working properties including low compression set, high tensile strength, and high abrasion resistance.Key Use(s):

    Oil resistant applications of all types Low temperature military uses. Off-road equipment. Automotive, marine, aircraft fuel systems. Can be compounded for FDA applications.
    But every thing deteriorates over time regardless of what it is made off , even springs will bend out of spec , the o-rings are just a service item the same as the oil and the springs,

    Thank you Steve and Alan ,

    all the very best pete
    Last edited by gwernaffield; 15-05-2019 at 19:52.

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