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Thread: Can an idler-wheel TT beat my Roksan Xerxes? is a Garrard or a Lenco up to it?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,441
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    There's a mystique about the idler drives that draws people to them - but there's a reason the BBC replaced their Garrards with Technics SP10 - zero rumble, absolute pitch stability and sound. I can understand the draw towards idler but I wouldn't go back to one as a main deck after living with the SP10.
    The SP10 is no doubt a very good machine but no more than the best Denons. They were used more for broadcasting because they were built before the Denons and JVC's and the broadcasters used them for this very reason.
    Bakoon 11R Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit silver lab 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  2. #32
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 244
    I'm Panos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulf-2007 View Post
    The SP10 is no doubt a very good machine but no more than the best Denons. They were used more for broadcasting because they were built before the Denons and JVC's and the broadcasters used them for this very reason.
    That's quite interesting, Paul. Do you think that the DP80 is Denon's top TT? Is it possible to further improve it and if yes, how?

    Cheers,
    Panos
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  3. #33
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

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    I'm Russell.

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    I wouldn't worry too much about the Denon DP45F, yes it's a phase lock loop DD, so it has perfect speed stability, but the one I had suffered rumble and later timing issues with the arm, sell it for as much as you can get and buy what you want. It's probably worth more if you don't change it.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  4. #34
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,441
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pankon View Post
    That's quite interesting, Paul. Do you think that the DP80 is Denon's top TT? Is it possible to further improve it and if yes, how?

    Cheers,
    Panos
    well the DP100 was the flag ship as far as I know but rarely seen outside Japan so no experience of that one.
    Bakoon 11R Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit silver lab 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  5. #35
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,441
    I'm paul.

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    There is a thread on diy audio, something like " monsterizing a DP80, the guy totally rebuilt it in an aluminum and stainless plinth with the electrics put in a separate box. Beautiful looking tt but only his word on how good it is and how much better than before, no idea.
    Bakoon 11R Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit silver lab 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  6. #36
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,441
    I'm paul.

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    Anyhoo, this thread is about idlers and I've only had good experiences with all the ones I've owned.
    Bakoon 11R Denon DP80 Stax UA-70 Shure Ultra 500 in a Martin Bastin body with jico stylus, project ds2 digital Rullit silver lab 8 field coils in tqwt speakers

    Office system, DIY CSS fullrange speakers with aurum cantus G2 ribbons yulong dac Sony STR6055 receiver Jvc QL-A51 direct drive turntable, Leema sub. JVC Z4S cart is in the house

    Garage system another Sony receiver, cassette deck


    System components are subject to change without warning and at the discretion of the owner.

  7. #37
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    been enjoying this. keep it up
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

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  8. #38
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Hartlepool UK

    Posts: 1,538
    I'm Alan.

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    Ive never heard any rumble from my Garrard 401 ?

    Alan
    Turntable - Garrard 401/Jelco 750L/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Pioneer PLC 590, SME 3009/2 , Denon DL103R - DIY Paradise Phono stage - Reel 2 Reel Studer A810, Otari MX55,Tascam BR20, Revox A77, B77, PR99, TEAC X1000 & 3440, Technics RS1500 - Digital HTPC / Young Dac - Preamp - DIY B4, 821, Power Amp's DIY Voyager Mono Block, Speakers Tannoy precision 6.4 / Wilmslow Kit Volt BM220.8 / Scanspeak D2905/9500

  9. #39
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 244
    I'm Panos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    I wouldn't worry too much about the Denon DP45F, yes it's a phase lock loop DD, so it has perfect speed stability, but the one I had suffered rumble and later timing issues with the arm, sell it for as much as you can get and buy what you want. It's probably worth more if you don't change it.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Russell,
    thanks for your advice, which I am taking seriously. I still wonder, though, whether it would be possible to mod the DP45F, in order to remove/improve its deficiencies, e.g. the rumble that you mentioned. Any ideas?
    System1: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with OriginLive DC motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Croft Micro25RSLS + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv., Falcon LS3/5a, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  10. #40
    Join Date: Jul 2016

    Location: Welsh Borders

    Posts: 279
    I'm Gary.

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    I think that a lot of the time the reason we decide we prefer a particular turntable over another is because we are responding to the overall aesthetic of the chosen unit. By "aesthetic" I mean not just its looks, but the whole identity it projects: cool and space-agey, restrained and minimalist, slightly old-fashioned and nerdy etc, etc. Plus that usually comes with all sorts of differences in the appearance and feel of the controls and user interface (sorry, couldn't think of a better way of describing it). So, does it appeal to you to start your records playing by spinning the platter up from standstill by hand, or do you like a procedure more akin to starting a Sopwith Camel (energise booster coils, wave arm in air, chocks away etc). All these things feed strong signals back to the user which please the senses (or not), flatter our feeling of discernment and achievement and re-inforce our sense of personal identity (audio-wise, at least). That's why we tend to band together into "camps" that sing the extravagant praises of one piece of kit or another - we are really singing about ourselves!

    Whether the respective turntables actually sound much different is another matter - they just turn a piece of vinyl round and round after all. OK yes, obviously there is a difference, but I think it is pretty small and probably no longer noticed after the first week of ownership. We're probably much more preoccupied with the notion that "Ooh, I'm listening to MY Platine Verdier" or "How cool is my heavily-modded Lenco" or whatever. Let me stress - there is nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. That's human nature and it's nice to be able to get pleasure from all that stuff. But I'm just saying, there is a lot more going-on in our heads when we use our hi-fi.s than just listening to music. Take a good example of any of these different sub-types of turntable and, depending on the record you are playing, you are going to enjoy it - lots. Put another way, for the turntable to be actually diminishing your enjoyment of the music, it would pretty much need to be in such poor condition it is in need of repair, or so badly designed in the first place that it should never have reached the market.

    Sorry, long and rambling post, but the message is this: we all think we are chasing after sound quality, but in reality we are not. We are looking for an overall "music-related experience" that chimes with our sense of what we like and who we are.
    IB


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