Cheese Recommendations

[guy]

Wossat, then? Not heard of it before


Marco.

As Grant said, British wheat is lower in protein (so not so good for bread - I think we used to import Canadian wheat to make up for the lack of protein? Not sure about that though).

Chorley Wood process relies on mechanised mixing at high speed and lots more additives than traditional bread:

"The Chorleywood bread process allows the use of lower-protein wheats and reduces processing time,[5] the system being able to produce a loaf of bread from flour to sliced and packaged form in about three and a half hours. This is achieved through the addition of Vitamin C, fat, yeast, and intense mechanical working by high-speed mixers, not feasible in a small-scale kitchen."

lots more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process

I have a suspicion that Chorley Wood bread makes me feel very bloated after a couple of slices - something that has never happened to me in France.

[Marco]

As Grant said, British wheat is lower in protein (so not so good for bread - I think we used to import Canadian wheat to make up for the lack of protein? Not sure about that though).

Chorley Wood process relies on mechanised mixing at high speed and lots more additives than traditional bread:

"The Chorleywood bread process allows the use of lower-protein wheats and reduces processing time,[5] the system being able to produce a loaf of bread from flour to sliced and packaged form in about three and a half hours. This is achieved through the addition of Vitamin C, fat, yeast, and intense mechanical working by high-speed mixers, not feasible in a small-scale kitchen."

lots more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process

I have a suspicion that Chorley Wood bread makes me feel very bloated after a couple of slices - something that has never happened to me in France.

Ah right, thanks for that (and Grant). Hadn't heard of it before. So that's what to blame then!

The bit I've highlighted though is the main problem: the focus here is almost always on convenience, rather than quality, as everyone's always in a bloody rush!

In the likes of France (and also from personal experience, Italy and Germany, and especially Austria, where IMO some of the best bread in the world is made), the focus is first and foremost on QUALITY, as they have a passion for creating the best that they possibly can, and moreover eating it and taking the time to properly enjoy it!

Why oh why don't Brits have the same passion for food, and instead tend to treat it simply as a form of sustenance? Gulp food down in jig time, as if they're in a race. rather than savour it and treat it with respect. Eat to live, rather than live to eat. Any ideas??

Marco.

[guy]

I think it is, in part, down to being the first country in the world to have an industrial revolution - large mass of the population moving from countryside to industrial centres for work in factories (a new form of serfdom ).

Oh fuck, how are we going to feed them? I know, we can put loads of additives in bread (powdered chalk was used to bulk out flour at one stage).

The plebs keep on dying/fainting at their machines; well we can give them a lunch break (unpaid) so that they get back to work quicker.

Two world wars, rationing - my mum was very angry about rationing, I think that UK still had rationing in 1954. She lived in Germany (as my father was in the British army) and was disgusted that the British were being treated less well than the Germans (rationing ended there in 1950)

By the sixties, we embraced the "brave new world" of space, Dan Dare, nutrient pills etc. No need for "proper beer", feed cows ground up animal remains along with doses of antibiotics for great growth rates/productivity, churning out bread on a conveyor belt (having been steamed, not baked), had a certain attraction - not least higher productivity/profits.

Simplistic interpretation, but it works for me

[CageyH]

Yes, your right about baguettes Marco - and bread in general. French bakers are a delight (and two bakes a day I think), one of the things that I miss about holidays in France.

You obviously have not been to some of the ones local to me. One is the most miserable people you could meet, but makes good bread, and the one in the village will sell the left overs from the day before. It is not great.

[guy]

You obviously have not been to some of the ones local to me. One is the most miserable people you could meet, but makes good bread, and the one in the village will sell the left overs from the day before. It is not great.

totally out of order.

We stayed down near Narbonne one year and I didn't enjoy the holiday as much as I would usually - area seemed quite run down, people grumpy.

But west coast (we mainly used to holiday either Brittany or Normandy), I found quite delightful. Normandy in particular - good people, food and markets.

[Marco]

I think it is, in part, down to being the first country in the world to have an industrial revolution - large mass of the population moving from countryside to industrial centres for work in factories (a new form of serfdom ).

Oh fuck, how are we going to feed them? I know, we can put loads of additives in bread (powdered chalk was used to bulk out flour at one stage).

The plebs keep on dying/fainting at their machines; well we can give them a lunch break (unpaid) so that they get back to work quicker.

Two world wars, rationing - my mum was very angry about rationing, I think that UK still had rationing in 1954. She lived in Germany (as my father was in the British army) and was disgusted that the British were being treated less well than the Germans (rationing ended there in 1950)

By the sixties, we embraced the "brave new world" of space, Dan Dare, nutrient pills etc. No need for "proper beer", feed cows ground up animal remains along with doses of antibiotics for great growth rates/productivity, churning out bread on a conveyor belt (having been steamed, not baked), had a certain attraction - not least higher productivity/profits.

Simplistic interpretation, but it works for me

Probably a lot of truth in that.. Do you also think it's partly because in the UK we work some of the longest hours in Europe, so our work/life balance is shot to hell, and hence have little time to cook or spend over meals, therefore when it comes to food, convenience usually wins over quality?

The likes of the French, Italians and Spanish have a very different approach to both eating and life in general.

Here, we've succumbed too easily to being part of a 'rat race', and so have less time to spend doing the things that *really* matter - and eating fresh, homecooked food, together at the table as a family, as opposed to mass-produced convenience-cack 'TV dinners', scoffed up in ten minutes, disparately on separate trays, is one of them!

Marco.

[Marco]

You obviously have not been to some of the ones local to me. One is the most miserable people you could meet, but makes good bread, and the one in the village will sell the left overs from the day before. It is not great.

Have you watched and noticed that they do the same with the native French people, or just others and you whom they know aren't French? Based on my experience in these matters, I'd be most surprised if the French would put up with that, as they will *know* the difference and only want fresh.

It's happened a couple of times to us, but in hotels when we've been having breakfast, and I know that the bread isn't fresh. However, because I can speak the lingo, I complain, and (grudgingly) the fresh stuff is brought out to replace it!

That shouldn't happen though, as proper hotels/restaurants have fresh bread delivered from the boulangerie every morning, but the bad places will often try and pap tourists off with stale/substandard cack, and not just bread.. Wine in carafes too, where the left over dregs from previous carafes are sometimes decanted into the one - and if you can't tell the difference, you wouldn't know.

I've got into a few 'heated exchanges' with hotel and restaurant owners, with that pish over the years, as I simply won't just accept it. Fortunately, however, the good experiences (the polar opposite to the above) vastly outweigh the bad, and I've been travelling to France since the early 70s - hence why I know what a proper baguette looks like, as I'm sure you do!

Marco.

[Marco]

But west coast (we mainly used to holiday either Brittany or Normandy), I found quite delightful. Normandy in particular - good people, food and markets.

More often than not, that's also been our experience, pretty much all over France. You just have to understand that French and British people are quite different, not just in terms of personality, but their respective cultures, and so what's ok in the UK often isn't in France.

Therefore, you have you to be willing to adapt, and also to speak (even just a little) of their language, as after all you're in THEIR country, not yours!

And it's rather arrogant to automatically expect everyone abroad to speak English. In that respect, you'd be surprised just how different your experience will be if you give the local lingo a go

Marco.

[guy]

More often than not, that's also been our experience, pretty much all over France. You just have to understand that French and British people are quite different, not just in terms of personality, but their respective cultures, and so what's ok in the UK often isn't in France, so have you to be willing to adapt, and also to speak (even just a little) of their language, as after all you're in THEIR country, not yours!

Marco.

Very true.

My French is very poor, I was bottom set at school, but I do try.

Several years ago I took my daughters to a park in Brittany (Asterix land, or something like that) I noticed that the park had a planetarium next door so I started trying to ask, in French, a very nice lady on the ticket sales whether it was possible to buy a family ticket for both venues.
Part way through I realised that she spoke English - it must have been the way that she was smiling at my efforts.
I asked whether she spoke English and she replied "very well actually", but she told me how pleased she was that I was trying

[struth]

ive a hard enough time speaking english