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Thread: Audiomods V Tonearm vs. Transfi Terminator T3Pro

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packgrog View Post
    Cool info, WOStantonCS100! Do you use the Terminator on a Technics 1200? I've been curious about how that pairing would work. I'm guessing not too different from how the Audiomods works on it (ie: there are issues with the deck itself holding back performance).

    Slightly off-topic, I'm surprised to see you using a Stanton 680 series with the Terminator. I still have a 680EL that came with my first Technics, and while I loved how punchy it was, it definitely lacked the air and grace of even a modest MC like the Denon DL-110. I never did try the Jico Shibata with it, as I hated the Jico elliptical, and I'd read that the Jico Shibata wasn't voiced correctly for the 680 series. Thoughts on that?

    One of the people that I've chatted with that has used the Terminator extensively (and who got me hooked on the AT33PTG/II and Musical Surroundings phono preamps) used quite a number of different cartridges with the arm, including a couple of Zyx cartridges, and some of them still had tracking issues. Not something that you'd expect with a tangential arm. Not sure if setup was a factor there, or the cartridges themselves just don't track as well regardless of arm. He's since switched to a AT33Sa which apparently tracks things on the Terminator that even the PTG/II couldn't do without distortion.

    There are certainly a number of reasons that I haven't gone for a Terminator. First of all, I already had the TecnoDec, which only supports Rega mounts, and even if the Terminator can be mounted in Rega mounting holes, the TecnoDec is too low mass to balance the Terminator effectively. Aside from that, I simply found a good deal (at the time) for the Audiomods Classic. I'm also simply more familiar with Rega-style arms, the Audiomods is fiddly enough compared to other arms that I've used, and the Terminator seems likely to be even more fussy to set up. And then there's the whole "cats wanting to chew on small wires" issue that also makes me wary of VPIs without covers.

    But I've never heard anyone call the Terminator "amateur-looking" before. It always looked very purposefully designed to me. Appearance-wise it seems a perfect match for something like the Technics. It may not be "pretty", but it looks professional and smart. The Audiomods does, perhaps accidentally, have a slightly more artistic look thanks to pattern of the holes in the tonearm, but it also still has that purposeful, professional machinery feel, especially the micrometer version that I'm still pining after (I hope these favorable exchange rates hold out long enough for my finances to recover from this year's crazy expenses).

    It's also worth noting that both Vic from Trans-Fi and Jeff from Audiomods have excellent customer service, and are constantly working to improve their products. You really can't go wrong with either product, IMO. If you swap cartridges a lot, the Terminator would probably be better due to ease of swapping wands. The Audiomods would be simpler for initial setup and more familiar if you're not accustomed to tangential arms, and is also a bit less expensive. Both sound superb.
    Yes, I now have the T3 mounted on my main 1200MK2 (with an Origin Live (Rega)) armboard. The deck also has a Mike New Audio bearing; so, it's not quite stock. However, the T3 came first. Even before the bearing upgrade, the T3 was a huge improvement; leap in performance.

    I'm surprised I've had a 681EEE mounted for as long as I have now, as well (several months?). Again, however, my 681EEE is not stock. It has a ruby cantilever and nude contour line stylus courtesy of SoundSmith. It is far more detailed and fleshed out than a stock version. It's not an 881 or 890; but, it clearly has, what I consider to be, more realistic timbre along with better transient response. I did not like it at first; it just didn't sound right. It definitely took some break in time. If I want the jaw-drop slam and attack for days, I'm still going with the 881/890; however, the retipped 681 has a nicer midrange which I am really enjoying without losing too much on the extremes. I did try/do have a JICO Urushi Shibata for the 681. It does not track as well nor sound as clear as the SoundSmith, probably for the obvious lack of ruby cantilever.

    ...more thoughts later...
    Lyrics are the ramblings of man, sometimes inspired by The Creator, most often, not.
    But music (melodies, harmonies, rhythms), that's God stuff.
    Always was. Always will be.


    One of the biggest lies ever told was that only certain kinds of people should listen to certain kinds of music.

    (silent) VINYL LP SLIDESHOWS

  2. #22
    Join Date: Mar 2013

    Location: Philadelphia, PA

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    I'm Packgrog.

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    Good to know that the more common Rega armboards work just fine with the Terminator.

    Did SoundSmith do a rebuild on an existing 6800, or was it a full custom assembly ala Jico? Also, do compliance figures even matter anymore with the Terminator, and if so, did it change for the 681 with the SoundSmith retip/rebuild? I'm not eager to start swapping cartridges (not so easy with fixed headshell arms like the Audiomods), but it still bothers me that I have the Stanton sitting in a box unused when I really did like aspects of the sound.

    I'm in no rush to replace my AT33PTG/II. I LOVE the sound of this cartridge, more than any I've heard (the Sa and EV sound pretty much the same), but replacing it when the stylus wears out could be an expensive prospect, so I'm always curious to explore other options.
    Analog: VPI Scout Jr. | Phoenix Engineering Falcon PSU | DIY tach | Funk Firm Achromat | Michell Clamp | AT33PTG/II | Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena | T.C. Electronic Desktop Konnekt 6 | Sonix IV ST136H Ultrasonic Cleaner | Okki Nokki Record Cleaning Machine

    Digital: iBasso D14

    Headphones: Lawton-modded Denon AH-D2000

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Eastern, US

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packgrog View Post
    Good to know that the more common Rega armboards work just fine with the Terminator.

    Did SoundSmith do a rebuild on an existing 6800, or was it a full custom assembly ala Jico? Also, do compliance figures even matter anymore with the Terminator, and if so, did it change for the 681 with the SoundSmith retip/rebuild? I'm not eager to start swapping cartridges (not so easy with fixed headshell arms like the Audiomods), but it still bothers me that I have the Stanton sitting in a box unused when I really did like aspects of the sound.

    I'm in no rush to replace my AT33PTG/II. I LOVE the sound of this cartridge, more than any I've heard (the Sa and EV sound pretty much the same), but replacing it when the stylus wears out could be an expensive prospect, so I'm always curious to explore other options.
    Vic asked me what deck and what armboard I'd be using and tailored the mounting to fit.

    From what I understand, SoundSmith doesn't generally rebuild the suspension, just fits their cantilever with stylus. I sent them the original 681 stylus assembly and got back the same... ...with the better cantilever with stylus. I'm tracking the cart at 1.25g, which is the same as I would a stock 681. I know what you mean. I have carts sitting around that I would love to try out. Eventually, I hope to have them all fitted with better cantilevers/styli.

    The AT33PTG/II is a great cart. It should be just fine with the T3. This page http://www.trans-fi.com/clientscorner.htm shows someone actually using a PTG with an early version of the Terminator arm. When the stylus does wear out, I would definitely recommend getting it retipped; the cart deserves it IMHO.
    Lyrics are the ramblings of man, sometimes inspired by The Creator, most often, not.
    But music (melodies, harmonies, rhythms), that's God stuff.
    Always was. Always will be.


    One of the biggest lies ever told was that only certain kinds of people should listen to certain kinds of music.

    (silent) VINYL LP SLIDESHOWS

  4. #24
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Austin, TX, USA

    Posts: 46
    I'm Spencer.

    Default Linear Does Make Sense

    Thanks for those comments, guys. It's good to hear Biff's long term experience with the Transfi. I can see the logic in the comment that a bit more setup time work will be rewarded later even if changing carts with multiple wands. If just sticking with one cart the one piece aspect of the Audiomods would be a benefit.
    Read Clive's link to the Cartridgeman arm, & having heard multiple high priced Walkers in action, the logic of linear trackers is hard to argue with. No antiskate to mess with and no "broken clocks right twice daily". Definitely plenty of merit in the tangential arm philosophy...

    So if I tweak the original question and consider these arms on an SP10 instead of SL1200 does that change your thoughts about these arms or other candidates?
    Sota Star Sapphire V turntable, SME V, Dynavector XX2, MkII MC cartridge, Nagra BPS battery powered phono stage
    Digital: Server Synology DS415+ / Sonore microRendu / Schiit Audio Gungnir Multibit / Custom Linear Power Supply by Ecco Audio
    Both: BAT VK51SE > Krell FPB-300 amp > Sound Lab A3 ESLs > 50 yr. old ears(left-handed)

  5. #25
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

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    I'm Clive.

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    The T3Pro will be great on either deck. The setup for the T3Pro is quicker than for a pivoted arm once you've adjusted to the differences. I'd say go with the arm you prefer for whatever reason.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
    Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower

  6. #26
    Join Date: Jan 2011

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    I have to echo Clive. The T3 can be a quicker setup, especially considering no protractors and even the pivot-to-spindle distance does not have to be spot on. I'll fault no one for choosing the Audiomods V or any other tonearm, honestly. It's all good clean fun. No harm done. There are many good choices that will satisfy a diversity of ears.

    SP10 or 1200? I don't think it matters. It's down to table preference, at that point. I even had the T3 mounted on my Thorens TD-150 MKII at one point! (Though I do think, in that case, considering the T3 is weightier than the stock arm, stiffer suspension springs would be a good idea for better performance.).
    Lyrics are the ramblings of man, sometimes inspired by The Creator, most often, not.
    But music (melodies, harmonies, rhythms), that's God stuff.
    Always was. Always will be.


    One of the biggest lies ever told was that only certain kinds of people should listen to certain kinds of music.

    (silent) VINYL LP SLIDESHOWS

  7. #27
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,829
    I'm Clive.

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    I have one more opinion I want to share. It's the way I see it others may not. If I had the Audiomods I suspect I'd eventually wonder whether I should upgrade the arm. With The T3Pro I have no desire to upgrade to a more expensive arm. Maybe though it's just me but I don't believe the T3Pro is anywhere near holding back the rest of my system. That said I stick by my earlier comment to go with your gut (heart).
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
    Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower

  8. #28
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Hartlepool UK

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    I'm Alan.

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    the audiomods is a very good arm and I would go for that
    I have heard and dont like the faf with the air floating arm, I also think it took the life from a Denon 103 Techy 1210 combo
    The Audiomods with an ebony arm board would be the way to go IMO


    . by Alan Towell, on Flickr
    Alan
    Last edited by 337alant; 30-10-2016 at 10:55.
    Turntable - Garrard 401/Jelco 750L/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Pioneer PLC 590, Micro Sieki MA505 , Denon DL103R - DIY Paradise Phono stage - Reel 2 Reel Studer A810, Otari MX55,Tascam BR20, Revox A77, B77, PR99, TEAC X1000 & 3440, Digital HTPC / Young Dac - Preamp - DIY B4, 821, Power Amp's DIY Avondale NCC300 Mono Block, Speakers Wilmslow Kit Volt BM220.8 / Scanspeak D2905/9500

  9. #29
    Join Date: Apr 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by 337alant View Post
    the audiomods is a very good arm and I would go for that
    I have heard and dont like the faf with the air floating arm, I also think it took the life from a Denon 103 Techy 1210 combo
    The Audiomods with an ebony arm board would be the way to go IMO
    Fair enough about the "faf" though I think it's more of a learning thing rather than it being much more involved.

    Re the 103; the T3Pro is not at all picky about cartridge to arm matching but I'm sure there can be mis-matches. That said I am aware of folks happily using a 103 on a T3Pro. As the one you heard sucked the life out of the sound, my initial feeling is that there wasn't enough air pressure being used but of course it could be various other factors. If the boot were on the other foot and the same comment were made about the Audiomods I'd suspect the arm was too tightly mounted to the deck (ie no decoupling) - I only mention that so as to demonstrate that all arms have setup details which need to be right for the sound to be well...on song.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
    Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower

  10. #30
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Hartlepool UK

    Posts: 1,640
    I'm Alan.

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    Clive,
    Im sure properly done it works very well but its not for me, I think it looks odd on a techie and the other thing I disliked about it was the audible air pump and having to disguise the plastic accumulator bottle.

    Alan
    Turntable - Garrard 401/Jelco 750L/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Pioneer PLC 590, Micro Sieki MA505 , Denon DL103R - DIY Paradise Phono stage - Reel 2 Reel Studer A810, Otari MX55,Tascam BR20, Revox A77, B77, PR99, TEAC X1000 & 3440, Digital HTPC / Young Dac - Preamp - DIY B4, 821, Power Amp's DIY Avondale NCC300 Mono Block, Speakers Wilmslow Kit Volt BM220.8 / Scanspeak D2905/9500

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