Audiomods V Tonearm vs. Transfi Terminator T3Pro

[Packgrog]

On the other side of the equation, I am also in the Philly area, and currently have a Technics with Isonoe feet, Achromat, and Audiomods Classic arm that I've been experimenting with. I'm also acquainted with a couple of people who use Terminator arms and the same cartridge that I use. Both arms are going to be excellent for the price, but both also have their degree of "fiddly". I have avoided the Terminator because it seems likely MORE fiddly, is a little more expensive, and I'm wary of exposed tonearm wires that my cats might get curious about and bite through (one of my cats got too close when I swapped my arm between decks and bit clean through my ground wire, which fortunately doesn't need the same kind of perfect uninterrupted connection as signal wires and was easily fixed). My available funds took a hit recently, so my planned experimentations with bearings and power mods got paused.

If you'd like to do some joint experimentation with various parts, perhaps we could both benefit. I primarily archive my vinyl to digital for office and mobile listening, which also allows me to more easily A/B test the effects of different mods. Let me know if you would be interested in equipment mod demoing at some point.

[sbank]

On the other side of the equation, I am also in the Philly area...
If you'd like to do some joint experimentation with various parts, perhaps we could both benefit. I primarily archive my vinyl to digital for office and mobile listening, which also allows me to more easily A/B test the effects of different mods. Let me know if you would be interested in equipment mod demoing at some point.

Thanks, yes. I will PM you in the near future, after settling some other system issues.

[sbank]

So thus far oversimplification of replies boils down to:
1 thinks Terminator is flawed
1 Terminator owner explained problems with a cartridge that first guy witnessed, but seems to like his Terminator
1 Audiomods owner says it's a bit fiddly but less so than Terminator
Surely some others have experience with these arms & opinions on how they fair against each other and others in the price range? Thanks everyone.

[YNWaN]

I recommend that anyone interested looks at the commercial offerings devised and considers why they are all constrained bearing designs whilst this relies on copying a DIY 'open source' design.

[sbank]

I recommend that anyone interested looks at the commercial offerings devised and considers why they are all constrained bearing designs whilst this relies on copying a DIY 'open source' design.

Thanks much. So which alternative(s) would you recommend in the same price range? Have you heard the Audiomods arm and if so any opinion on it?

[Clive]

You could look at this:

http://www.thecartridgeman.com/conductor.htm

Constrained?

As for "copied" well, the T3Pro uses a manifold with multiple air holes. The manifold for the T3Pro is inverted, wands are very different, indeed check the images of the original arm, it does look very different. I'd say "inspired by" rather than copied. There's a lot more development that's gone into the T3Pro than is obvious to the untrained eye.

[WOStantonCS100]

I've been using a TransFi T3 Pro Terminator for several years, now. No issues. It requires careful setup when swapping carts; but, no issues. As Clive points out, the amount of control one has over all parameters, means I can get critically precise alignment (including azimuth) with any cart in my stable. No heavy decisions about which is best, Baerwald, Stevenson, etc. No protractor at all; just a straight line. Trackability, even with a flea tracker (1.25 grams) is the best I've experienced in my system, playing notably warped records. My current favorite cart tracks at approx. 3.18 grams. Most importantly, the sonic dividends pour forth in spades. Not cartridge specific; but, especially with linear type styli, the ability to conceal which track is playing is perhaps it's most beguiling aspect. Even with albums I know well, I get so engrossed in the music that I forget the last song of the side is playing. IGD is the lowest I've experienced. I've recently added a valve, in the listening room, so I can more precisely, and on a whim, control the air flow. Necessity? No. But, like I said... if you're a bit OCD you can do it. If you're the kind to want to change VTA with each LP, you can do it. Honestly, except for changing carts, this is just as much a set it and forget it arm as any pivoted arm. I adjust precisely for the cart I'll be using, then let it ride.

Without a doubt, my favorite feature of this arm is the "lack" of anti-skating. It's not needed. However, if you're transcribing tough discs and need a little more pressure on the groove wall (say, to overcome a stubborn skip), you can purposefully tilt the sled. Additionally, carts that I previously thought had a channel imbalance now show near perfect channel balance (within .1 db). Getting anal about it, I've recorded test records to hi-res wav and then analyzed the recording in my DAW.

As far as the concept and build quality, I'd have to disagree with anyone who would lump this in with other DIY projects. Is it as pretty as an Ikeda? No. Nevertheless, it is devoid of the things that scream amateur. What it is, is purposefully built and reminds me a bit of some SAEC arms, in that regard; the no-nonsense, we came to play, ideology.

The Audiomods arm? Can't say. Don't own one. However, that too looks like they have taken the Rega concept and run with it in the same way Vic took the Ladegaard concept and ran with it. You could always just own one of each.

[Clive]

Changing cartridges on a T3Pro is a touch fiddly though to compensate alignment is so easy and precision is really straightforward to achieve vs the 2 null points method of pivoted arms. I only use 2 cartridges with the T3Pro so I have 2 wands, all I need to do is swap the wands over, reset VTA and I'm set. With spare wands it is easy to swap cartridges unless you have loads of cartridges and only a couple of wands....which sounds like your situation Biff.

[Packgrog]

Cool info, WOStantonCS100! Do you use the Terminator on a Technics 1200? I've been curious about how that pairing would work. I'm guessing not too different from how the Audiomods works on it (ie: there are issues with the deck itself holding back performance).

Slightly off-topic, I'm surprised to see you using a Stanton 680 series with the Terminator. I still have a 680EL that came with my first Technics, and while I loved how punchy it was, it definitely lacked the air and grace of even a modest MC like the Denon DL-110. I never did try the Jico Shibata with it, as I hated the Jico elliptical, and I'd read that the Jico Shibata wasn't voiced correctly for the 680 series. Thoughts on that?

One of the people that I've chatted with that has used the Terminator extensively (and who got me hooked on the AT33PTG/II and Musical Surroundings phono preamps) used quite a number of different cartridges with the arm, including a couple of Zyx cartridges, and some of them still had tracking issues. Not something that you'd expect with a tangential arm. Not sure if setup was a factor there, or the cartridges themselves just don't track as well regardless of arm. He's since switched to a AT33Sa which apparently tracks things on the Terminator that even the PTG/II couldn't do without distortion.

There are certainly a number of reasons that I haven't gone for a Terminator. First of all, I already had the TecnoDec, which only supports Rega mounts, and even if the Terminator can be mounted in Rega mounting holes, the TecnoDec is too low mass to balance the Terminator effectively. Aside from that, I simply found a good deal (at the time) for the Audiomods Classic. I'm also simply more familiar with Rega-style arms, the Audiomods is fiddly enough compared to other arms that I've used, and the Terminator seems likely to be even more fussy to set up. And then there's the whole "cats wanting to chew on small wires" issue that also makes me wary of VPIs without covers.

But I've never heard anyone call the Terminator "amateur-looking" before. It always looked very purposefully designed to me. Appearance-wise it seems a perfect match for something like the Technics. It may not be "pretty", but it looks professional and smart. The Audiomods does, perhaps accidentally, have a slightly more artistic look thanks to pattern of the holes in the tonearm, but it also still has that purposeful, professional machinery feel, especially the micrometer version that I'm still pining after (I hope these favorable exchange rates hold out long enough for my finances to recover from this year's crazy expenses).

It's also worth noting that both Vic from Trans-Fi and Jeff from Audiomods have excellent customer service, and are constantly working to improve their products. You really can't go wrong with either product, IMO. If you swap cartridges a lot, the Terminator would probably be better due to ease of swapping wands. The Audiomods would be simpler for initial setup and more familiar if you're not accustomed to tangential arms, and is also a bit less expensive. Both sound superb.

[WOStantonCS100]

Changing cartridges on a T3Pro is a touch fiddly though to compensate alignment is so easy and precision is really straightforward to achieve vs the 2 null points method of pivoted arms. I only use 2 cartridges with the T3Pro so I have 2 wands, all I need to do is swap the wands over, reset VTA and I'm set. With spare wands it is easy to swap cartridges unless you have loads of cartridges and only a couple of wands....which sounds like your situation Biff.

Hey Clive, Actually, I specifically asked Vic for a wand (really just a collar w/ pivot) that would accommodate "normal" head shells and that is what he supplied. So, changing carts is no more difficult than it is on any other arm with an SME type coupling. It also allows me to use integrated head shell carts with the T3. At some point I may get a wand or two in order to assess the sonic difference. I would have to settle on a cartridge I like so much that, at least, I'd have it mounted 80% of the time. I'd also have to relinquish my cart-swapper badge, at that point.