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Thread: My "REAL SOUND" experiment.

  1. #111
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Yep, Jim, Pre-amp.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  2. #112
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 5,305
    I'm James.

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    I will see if my contact has the Mullard you are looking for Andy.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  3. #113
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

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    Another wee update...

    So, it did turn out I had a bust M8137, and we still have one channel output. So, the 3009 has been shipped upto Glasgow to be fully checked over by John @ AudioOrigami. It looks like I may have sourced another CV4004 at a reasonable price, many thanks to Jimbo of this very Parish. I did maange to get some output
    from one speaker and can say that I really liked what I heard, very smooth, relaxed, and more importantly, tonally different. The system is incredibly simple when it comes to cabling so it should be pretty easy to see if power cables have an impact. I have one pair of IC's in the shape of pre to power amp and that's it, I do, however have several IC's made up from the same Belden speaker cable with different RCA's, should be fun seeing which, tonally sounds best, I think I already have a favourite even with output from the one speaker.

    This little flight of fancy also allows me to mess around with old MM carts of which I have a soft spot. So, I may just start buying up a stable of old and new MM's just for a laugh. Anyway, not much doing now, so, as always, stay tuned..
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  4. #114
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Another update.....

    So, whilst lots of the system is being checked out, I got my mind to wondering what I could do next. The idea of a "REAL SOUND" tonearm cable to me whilst walking the dog. So, I've put the feelers out for a new or 2nd hand male SME 4 pin connector to fit the 3009, i'm not that fussed if one dosen't turn up, but it would be nice so we can continue this experiment with a near full loom of Duelund cable. I'll probably upgrade the RCA's to something made of solid copper unlike the SME RCA's. I'll document this section of the experiment if and only when I source the SME connector. The TD160 super may also be getting a few little upgrades, maybe something from Vintageaudio.dk, they so some nice carbon springs and maybe a new motor and speed controller. We shall see....

  5. #115
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,591
    I'm Brian.

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    Looks like you're havin lots of fun here Andrew. TBH I really need to get a dog again. It's amazing the things that come into yer heid while walking a dog
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

  6. #116
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    REAL SOUND - UPDATE!

    The tonearm returned and was supposed to be fully working, but I'm still one channel down, so what gives? I have no idea. I now have a 3009 with a silent left channel. This has been checked out through a process of elimination. I'm sure that it's not a problem with cartridge, headshell, or cartridge tags/leads. I bought new audiotechnica headshell leads and after installation, I'm still one channel down. Cartridges and headshells have been tested on over decks and arms, and lo' and behold produce two channels of sound (it's amazing what tonearms can do nowadays)! So, it's either intrinsic wiring of the tonearm or the tonearm cable itself. Well I do have a small piece of good news. I did manage to source a full SME 3009 tonearm cable for 15E from Europe, hopefully this will be intact and maybe diagnose if it's the tonearm or tonearm cable. Either way I'm not in a hurry, I do have a back-up plan in the form of me sending the 3009 off if I still have one channel output after this new tonearm cable arrives. I'll get it checked over for a second opinion, I hope this is not the case as it's a 3 month turnaround period! Yep, these guys who offer these services are just plain busy, probably still catching up from COVID projects.

    I have now sourced enough cable for a REAL SOUND tonearm cable from some spare speaker cable I had sitting in my spares box in the garage. I have decided to go full-monty and order x6 of Duelund ultra pure copper RCA's https://www.hificollective.co.uk/rca...lugs-gold.html these are not the more expensive and a 50 pre RCA version does exist but I think is a little too expensive for this experiment. I'm only buying these six RCA's as an investment into assessing the ultra-pure RCA's. I'd like to first assess the sonic characteristics of the RCA's currently installed in my system, but I need two channel output first!

    Anyway, upwards and onwards,..........
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  7. #117
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 27,862
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    The spring-loaded contacts of the SME arm headshell socket can become 'sticky' and not make contact. Using a small jewellers screwdriver, push the contacts in and out a few times. That ought to restore connection.

    Do you have a continuity meter? If so check for continuity between the headshell leads and the 4-way Belling & Lee 'Unitor' socket at the arm base. If that is OK, then the problem will lay with the Belling & Lee plug, the arm leads and the SME RCA 'phono' plugs.
    Barry

  8. #118
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Barry,

    Thanks for the reply. The whole 3009 was supposed to have been checked for continuity and claimed to have passed, the tonearm cable, intrinsic wiring, headshell, and headshell cables, all supposed to have passed. I'll not divulge who checked it. I'll have a little go at the pins as you suggested, I don't think it'll help but stranger things have happened!

    ATB

    A
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  9. #119
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default REAL SOUND SHOCKER - It sounds reasonable!

    REAL SOUND - It lives!

    Finally after much messing around we have a system up, running, and playing in STEREO. I had no idea that such levels of fidelity could be achieved, I've been living with one channel on this system for so long . The system is as basic as can be. One set of IC's, one set on RCA's from the TD160 Super, a pre-amp and a power amp. The pre-amp is fully Mullard 8317 powered, the power amp has genelex gold lion 300b, probably not the best 300b on the market but pretty reasonable. I've also got a couple of new Siemens C3M valves, I found a couple of webpages for those that are interested, mainly

    http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0281.htm

    and

    https://www.jacmusic.com/techcorner/...-C3m-info.html ----> This make for intersting reading.

    I've had all sorts of problems with this system and tracking down the issue with one channel was extremely taxing. The SME 3009 was checked and given a clean bill of health. The Radford pre had two problems, mainly a blown M8317 valves and a bad solder connection to one of the channels output RCA's. The power amp had a faulty C3M valve. So, after extracting a few quid I purchased a new M8317, a pair of C3M's, and used the soldering iron in anger to repair the RCA on the pre-amp.

    Currently the REAL SOUND system lives to the right of my listening room chair, within easy reach of the Radford's volume control, this is very useful after one or two drinks of whisky and means I have optimally placed the system for getting my rear out of my listening chair every to change volume levels. The deck is by no means optimal. Tonerm height, cartridge loading, channel matching with the Fozgo all needs to be done, I've not checked platter rotation speed, it's just spinning and making some noise (Black Sabbath at the moment). The Shure V15 mk3 will shortly be saying hello to a new JICO stylus, top of the range..

    https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/vn35he-sas-r/

    Speakers are my next problem. I've quite a few pairs to play around with, a full pimped and restored pair of Celestion 15's, and a slightly updated pair of IMF Super Compact II's, both have slightly different mods. The 15's are fully Duelund loaded by Bypass caps on the XO's and completely rewired with Duelund cabling. So I've gone mad and ordered a pair of Cardas solid copper bonding posts for the 15's, yes, I know complete overkill. The IMF's have some really nice solid copper cardas binding posts, no duelund components but are wired with tinned copper cabling. Both speakers have positive and negative points. I suppose I'll just have to spend some time listening to them both and then make a choice, life can be so hard sometimes. I could also do with re-making the stands that I made a few years earlier, they need to be raised a good six inches to get them anywhere near sounding half decent, this isn't a big job, just time consuming. I'm probably going to order some more speaker cable from HiFi Collective. Currently, the system is firing to my side and not full frontal, so, several meters of https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wir...insulated.html and I have also decided to slightly modify my IC's. My IC's are currently 1m in length which means thety bulge out all over the place at the back of the rack, I do have a smaller 0.5m pair which is ideal, this smartens them up and I also intend to go buy four of these https://www.hificollective.co.uk/rca...lugs-gold.html to try and improve things further. Finally, the REAL SOUND batpure super tweeters have also been pressed into action!

    So, all-in-all quite interesting.
    Last edited by Wakefield Turntables; 15-07-2022 at 17:48.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  10. #120
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    REAL SOUND EXPERIMENT PT X - A bit of spare time.

    I've now ordered all the stuff from HiFi Collective and I will have quite some time to wait for the JICO stylus so I'll be using the old VN35MR stylus for the time being. I've managed to get the 3009 setup pretty well, maybe some very fine tweaking with the pillar height but essentially I'm happy with things so far, Dr. Feickhart protracter makes for easy work. The Fozgo + test record may come out tomorrow for channel balancing, it's too hot tonight and it's been a long day. Things are progressing slowly but very surely. I'll probably not update now for a while, I'm looking to do a decent sized post next time, hopefully with some decent pictures.

    Stay tuned...
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




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