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Thread: My "REAL SOUND" experiment.

  1. #121
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

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    REAL SOUND EXPERIMENT PT XI - Rainy Sunday in the garage...

    Rain is bouncing on the garage door, I've a big mug of tea by my side and my lug 'oles are listening to Radio 4. I recieved a nice package from Hi-Fi Collective.





    The speaker cable has attached to my 300B, this now means that I can keep the "REAL SOUND" system in place and I can play around with speakers at will. As you can see from the above picture my 15's had some nice binding posts attached, but closer examination revealed them to be brass . The binding posts have now been replaced with Cardas high purity solid copper. You can also see my IC's fitted with the recommended RCA's from Jeff Day's website, this are to be replaced with Duelund RCA's with extremely high purity copper content.

    After a little surgery....




    Lovely new binding posts. These really do make a difference. Here's a quick picture of the mounted XO in the 15's, note Duelund bypass cap installed.




    The IC's really do need to be upgraded with the new RCA's. I'll probably do this at some point in the week when I have a little spare time. I did make a start, but a lovely plate of food and some nice wine beckons...




    Setting up the TD160 Super has been a little annoying, never ever assume things are level!




    I need to order some levelling feet with a degree of isolation from the other components in the system, that's another job for another night. We now have music playing, the cart's be aligned and the tonearm properly set-up. I think that's it for tonight...

    Stay tuned......
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  2. #122
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    REAL SOUND EXPERIMENT PT XII - Surprised......

    I'm sitting in front of a fully functional REAL SOUND system. I'm quite surprised by the sound I'm hearing. OK, the Celestion 15's have limitations but then again this experiment was never about producing a system that blew everything out of the water it was more about having fun and pursuing an "idea" of how a music set-up could sound. Several things have changed since I first fullty got the system working, mainly the 15's have some lovely solid copper binding posts and the Belden IC's are now terminated with Duelund ultra pure copper RCA's, the difference is not subtle. Speaker placement has been improved altough I feel a little more tweaking is needed before I get the "sweet" spot. The TD-160 really does need setting up properly but I think I'll wait till over the weekend to have some fun with that. The platter should sit at 10mm ride height from the top of the plinth, this slightly varies and will need very slight tweaking. The Quadraspire rack needs some work as well as this is slightly uneven, so no good for the TT! The tonearm riding far too close to the vinyl top surface so cartridge VTA is also going to be a bit wonky. Weirdly, bass is very detailed, solid, purposeful, I hear a nice wide soundstage extending the full range across the listening room. Vocals are a little recessed but this could be due to the speakers rather than the TT or amplification.

    Stay tuned....
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  3. #123
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: limerick

    Posts: 188
    I'm charles.

    Default

    Hi Andrew, I see you having lots of fun there. Care to tell us what change you heard with the Duelund bypass cap across the Jantzen.

    I found the Duelund speaker cable to be surprisingly good and I used them without terminals, just the bare wire clamped in the speaker posts. I bought the Duelund cables because my main cables, Harmonic Technology Pro 9's were a bit short after some renovations. I hooked the HT cables up recently as a sanity check and they have stayed there since. We just live with these python sized monsters.

    If you wish to squeeze a little more out of the Celestions I have two areas to look at. I think I see the internal speaker wires in your photos appear to be terminated with those push-on lugs. If this is the case you will find a cleaner performance by simply soldering the wire directly to the speaker tags. They are brass and probably Nickel plated. You should hear an improvement similar to the nice speaker posts you installed.

    Also you have a simple crossover which is a good thing and lets you more easily hear changes you make. I suggest you consider repositioning the smaller coil on the XO board. The way they are now means they will be talking to each other because of mutual coupling. Not good, but if you remove the coil and stand it upright so that it is resting on the round part the coupling is destroyed ergo cleaner sound.

    Unfortunately this is a bit awkward to mount. I use a mastic, silicone adhesive or hot-melt glue to secure it. It is important that the direction of the coil windings point straight towards the centre of the bigger coil.

    The photo shows the correct alignment and Duelund cable 12 and 16AWG


  4. #124
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Hi Charles,

    Thanks for the positive comments. I'm an old hand at modding Celestion 15's, I've done 5-6 pairs in the past. I've already removed the nickel plated lugs which terminate the internal wiring and soldered the Duelund directly onto each speaker driver terminal. I'm not too bothered about messing around with the Inductors but thanks for the heads up! I very nearly completely bypassed the binding posts altogether and soldered speaker cable directly to the X-O, that way you'd certainly get everything from the horses mouth (or XO in this instance) .

    I'm getting a very deep, powerful, detailed bass considering the size of the driver I would say it's just as extended as the 15XR which I've also owned as well. Soundstage is wide and extends beyond the edges of the speaker. Soundstage depth is reasonable, not cavernous but out for an experimental system. Vocals can sound a little recessed and muffled but overall more than acceptable. Filagree detail has really opened up since getting rid of the Switchcraft RCA's and the CMC brass binding posts that I had previously installed. I honestly don't think I'm getting the best from the system. The TT need levelling properly and the ride height of the platter is out by several MM's on a couple of the suspension springs. I've purchased some nice adjustable decoupling feet for the TT these should hopefully arrive next week.

    I would ask you to look at this website if you want some idea of what I'm supposed to be hearing https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

    I have included the review for the Duelund bypass cap.


    Duelund Tinned Copper Foil Bypass Capacitor 0,01uF / 600VDC - 2% tolerance

    Technical specifications (according to manufacturer): "Precision Speaker Capacitor; Tinned Copper Foil; handmade in Denmark".

    Sound: These 0,01uF tinned copper foil bypass capacitors are really fun to work with. Like most copper foil bypass capacitors you get that increase in realism of tone, intimacy and a richness in the harmonic overtones. In direct comparison to the V-Cap CuTF they sound a fraction more forward but that's more down to personal taste and system matching, rather than anything to do with sound quality difference. Top of the range Mundorf capacitors in the value 0,01uF seemed in comparison to add brightness but this brightness was sort of sitting on top of the recording, not merging into it. The Mundorf's came across a tad artificial in that respect. Compared to the silver bypass, I find the tinned copper bypass to be a little darker but all the information contained in the recording does seem to come across in a more natural way, there is more drive and more body. Maybe it's they way I listen to music in general so let me explain this in more depth. My wife and I both come from families where playing a musical instrument is a normal, everyday thing to do. We continue this with our own family, our main instruments being the violin and double bass and our children play acoustic drums, piano and have stared in opera's and theatre productions. All of the instruments are acoustic instruments, which are very complex things to reproduce via loudspeakers. If I just stick to my double bass: it is far more than just low notes, the sound of an acoustic upright bass is a complex mixture of a spruce and maple body resonating, of stainless steel strings vibrating on an ebony fingerboard, of callus covered fingertips plucking or resin covered horse tail's hair bowing the strings. With the Duelund Tinned Copper bypass this complex mix and interaction of timbres comes across in an extremely natural manner, so it just lets me get deeper into the music. It's closer to real music for me. Where I found the Duelund Cu-Ag bypass to perform best parallel to a woofer or midrange driver in a low-pass network, the Duelund Cu-Sn bypass seems to work best when placed parallel to the series capacitor of a midrange or tweeter high-pass network. Since spring 2020, when Duelund moved production in house, the Duelund Cu-Sn Tinned Copper Foil Bypass Capacitor has been significantly reduced in price. With this new lower price it has become a real no-brainer that should be part of every DIY audio enthousiasts tool box.


    and here is the review for the Jentzen cap

    Jantzen Audio Silver Z-Cap 800VDC - 2% tolerance
    Technical specifications(according to manufacturer): "Double foil super PP capacitor. Featuring extremely high quality German made foil, metalized with Aluminum and Zinc particles. Nitrogen filled instead of dielectric fluid, offering more foil per capacitor and eliminating risk of evaporation. Zinc / Aluminum Metallized Polypropylene, Voltage rating 0,10uF - 0,33uF: 1200VDC or 600VAC, Voltage rating 0,47uF - 22uF: 800VDC or 425VAC, Non inductive construction, Terminal leads are made from pure silver (1 mm in diameter), Capacitance tolerance : +/- 2%, Voltage rating: 800 - 1200VDC, Loss factor: 1K 0.00002 10K 0.00001, Non-polarized capacitor".
    Sound: More transparent than the slightly less expensive Superior Z-Cap, very detailed. Sometimes too detailed for my liking which makes them less coherent than the Superior Z-Cap but this cn only be an issue in systems that are already on the bright side of neutral. They give some emphasis on the upper treble but are still more civilised than a Clarity Cap ESA for example; they have a so-called "high-end" flair. Objectively speaking they are better than the Superior Z-Cap but I prefer the Superior Z-Cap for it is more neutral presentation. I guess you could call the Jantzen Audio Silver Z-Cap the "audiophile" capacitor and the Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Cap the "musical" capacitor.


    I must admit to not making any notes for comparison just yet. I'm waiting until I've levelled the TT properly before I start making any comparison. It's all good fun!!!!

    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  5. #125
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    REAL SOUND EXPERIMENT PT XIII - Nearly finished.

    This experiment has been rolling on for quite some time. I always wanted to try and external PSU for my Belt drive TT's, I've been unwilling to pay the price as I only use these TT's every so often, much preferring my Idlers and DD TT's. I've been after a PSU for quite some time and did consider buying a Heed Obelisk PSU as a last resort. Well, after much waiting I managed to track down a Isokinetic PSU.


    ISOkinetik-ISOdrive-TURNTABLE-POWER-SUPPLY-FOR-REGA.jpg.243d3e1071455abe208d2392f96fd110.jpg


    The blurb states.......

    ISOdrive ISOKINETIK

    "The ISOdrive regulates the turntable's motor drive via an intricate quadrature-quartz speed generator, providing unsurpassed speed accuracy and pitch stability. Packed into their hefty shielded steel casework (protecting the units from electromagnetic interference and vibration) are two mains-filtering transformers, and a high-current amplification circuit to assure that the power passed onto your motor is silky-smooth and constant, with no fluctuation and virtually immeasurable distortion."


    So, there we have it, sounds like a decent PSU, not sure how much impact it will have on the TD160 TBH I didn't pay a great deal for it so I'll be happy to keep it in storage if I ever tinker with another TT. I'm nearly finished with this experiment, I'll not be buying any more components and the setup may change but this will be from items I already own or get chance to try. Once the TT feet, new PSU, arrive I'll be able to set things up properly and finally start making some listening notes...

    Stay tuned...
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




  6. #126
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,753
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    REAL SOUND Experiment PT XIV (26887) - Big updates!

    It's Sunday night so it must be time for another update. I really enjoy doing these updates, sure I don't get much feedback but 650 of you have read this since I last posted. Strangely, many packages arrived within a few days of each other which meant I could push this project to the next level. I had a big problem getting the TD-160 level and this was partly due to the repurposed Quadraspire racks that I had stored up in the attic and garage. I had just enough metal seperators to get things going but some refused to fully screw together meaning the TD-160 was slightly wonky. I overcame this by converting a four posted quadraspire rack to three! Everything now sits level.



    You will also see that I have terminated the Real Sound IC's with some very nice extremely high purity copper Duelund RCA's. Early listening tests have proven to be a big uplift over the Switchcraft RCA's recommended, initially, by Jeff Day. Here is a good picture of them in situ and you can get a better understanding of how I've modded the Quadraspire rack, it's now very, very firm.



    The TD160 Oak plinth was supplied with a decent base board put some pretty naff feet which offered no isolation or ability to level the TT. As you can see from the below picture, they were not very good. I have removed these feet and fitted some stonking solid stainless steel replacements with ball-bearing isolation and fully adjustable. The old feet which were made from solid rubber have been repurposed and now live under my Radford preamp. I did this to offer the pre-amp a little more height to try and help ventilitaion and secondly mop up any vibration going back into the rack. I have no idea if this will help but it surely can't harm things.



    Here is a picture of the new feet before isolation. The TT plinth and the platter are now sitting level in all planes. I have also installed some new springs for the TD160. Closer inspection of the rubber grommets in the springs showed that they had started to deform badly. The grommets and springs have been replaced. I have also fitted a new belt which is doing the rounds at the moment, supposed to be the best thing since sliced Thorens but I've not built up much time on it yet. The ride height of the platter is 8mm and I have a fantastic pistonic bounce in the vertical plane, now transverse movement of the platter or tonearm board.



    Extra benefits are said to come from an external PSU for the old Thorens TT's. PSU prices vary considerably from several hunderd pounds to over a thousand. I managed to pick up this Isokinetic PSU very cheaply, the TD160 had to have a slight modification to change to the plug. Several minutes later and we have a new PSU fitted. It's very nicely made and quite heavy. I'm very pleased.

    And here we are, another picture showing the system. I have no tonearm fitted so the SME 3009 will be fitted in the next few days, this needs re-aligning again but this is quite easy. I'll also be fine tuning with my test record and Fozgometer.



    The PSU is placed as far away from the cartridge as possible and I'll try and generate a little height between it and the Pre-amp. Probably just need to do a little cable dressing at the back. Anyway, that's it for tonight.


    Stay tuned...
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)




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