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Thread: Very High efficient loudspeakers

  1. #21
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,829
    I'm Clive.

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    It becomes so much easier splitting a 2-way. The current speakers I run are not listed below....they are baffleless, the wideband single driver is 94db and directly connected the amp (no crossover). The dual 15 inch basses are driven via a class D amp with DSP, this crosses over at 300Hz 12db. The wideband works better with the DC blocking cap set to filter frequencies below 400Hz but this is only really beneficial when playing very demanding music very loudly. The basses have room correction applied and "dynamic eq" which operates somewhat like a loudness control, turning up the bass at low volume. It's more more complex to set up than a simple 2-way all-in-one speaker but ultimately it's a heck of a lot more flexible. This way too I can use a relatively low power amp for the wideband speaker.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
    Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower

  2. #22
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Yes, I can get silly load with the 4w amp and the 96dB Akais - but the amp is well into soft clipping. Played more quietly I get a much better quality of sound. I don't see the point of having a low powered valve amp and clipping it all the time. Get more power or more efficient speakers.
    Depends how loud you want it i guess...my drivers are only 8watt rated. Amp is d type and produces a lot so ive to be careful not to turn it up too high.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

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  3. #23
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

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    Clive I agree that that is a very flexible set up and makes sense on a number of levels. What would you say, though, to those who reckon the digital processing kills the sound? I don't have enough experience with it myself to say one way or the other.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,829
    I'm Clive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Clive I agree that that is a very flexible set up and makes sense on a number of levels. What would you say, though, to those who reckon the digital processing kills the sound? I don't have enough experience with it myself to say one way or the other.
    I don't have enough experience with DSP in the mid to be able to comment on that....the mid is where I want purity so I keep it simple. As for DSP on the bass, if you need to control room modes (mine are bad as the room is close to square with a low ceiling) then DSP can only be a far lesser evil than a bad room. I'm getting totally stunning bass from bafflesless bass drivers, even a small (open) baffle seems to impart colouration. The speakers look a little "functional".

    Here's a poor photo with our puppy exiting the room to avoid the bass.

    Last edited by Clive; 01-08-2016 at 16:30.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
    Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower

  5. #25
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

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    Looks interesting - but how do you avoid putting the midrange though the DSP when there is only one driver for both?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,829
    I'm Clive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Looks interesting - but how do you avoid putting the midrange though the DSP when there is only one driver for both?
    The 15 inchers are the bass drivers with the XO in the bass DSP amp set to 300Hz. The small driver on top of the bass driver is the wideband driver driven by a Bantam One amp. The photo is not too clear....
    Last edited by Clive; 01-08-2016 at 17:21.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
    Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower

  7. #27
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

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    I understand now. You did explain that earlier, in fact. WAF is through the floor, but who cares? And it does all make perfect sense. The full range driver is just run full range but the open baffle will roll of whatever little bass it does do so you won't get any overlap I guess.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #28
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Maidstone

    Posts: 977
    I'm James.

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    Interesting Clive, would you be able to describe the sound of the speakers?
    Thanks.
    Source: Heavily modified DDDAC using MacBook Pro.
    Amplification: Pre amp-Stereo Coffee pre amp on steroids.
    Power amp- Rather large Colin Wonfor Class A power Amp
    Speakers: Lampizator P17 Open Baffles
    Accessories: Klotz 500 DIY Interconnects & DIY speaker cable sounding better than anything commercial.
    All powered from a Mother Trucker BPS with a dedicated consumer unit with 10mm armoured radial back to the house tails after the meter.

  9. #29
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,829
    I'm Clive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I understand now. You did explain that earlier, in fact. WAF is through the floor, but who cares? And it does all make perfect sense. The full range driver is just run full range but the open baffle will roll of whatever little bass it does do so you won't get any overlap I guess.
    WAF is a lost cause with these! The wideband starts to roll off at 1kHz, the bass filtered at 300Hz with a 12db slope results in nice straight line when I measure with my calibrated mic.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
    Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower

  10. #30
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

    Posts: 1,250
    I'm Chris.

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    My experience with DSP is that results are in general quality/cost related. Cheap systems are little more than exotic graphic equalisers, but systems like TACT take microphone measurements of room imperfections and offer you a range of solutions which you listen to and perhaps tweak in order to perfect the right settings. Some TACT systems allow control of separate subs and crossovers. I found that any minor drop in absolute sound quality was more than compensated for by getting the Hi Fi to play properly in the room.

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