Should Loudspeakers Grab You?

[Macca]

Demmed my Akai speakers at the last NEBO, which was fun, and one opinion was: 'They are very 'Seventies. Typical Japanese 'Seventies speakers. Very pleasant sounding but they don't grab you. Okay for background music.'

Which is, to a fair extent, a good summation, although as with anything you dem somewhere else it never sounds as good as at home.

But should loudspeakers 'grab' you? Or are loudspeakers that don't grab you more neutral? Better for long-term listening? Give a more even presentation over a wide variety of material rather than sound really good with some and a bit too hard/edgy/in your face with 'the wrong' music?

Harmon do a lot of speaker research and they reckon that the most widely appreciated speakers are those with as flat a response in room as possible, even if you are listening outside the sweet spot. But they are selling to a mass market so they are not necessarily looking for the best solution, but a solution the majority will buy.

As for me I am looking for a 'final' set of speakers that will tick all my boxes and it isn't easy. So this question has been on my mind.

What say you?

[Virtual-Symmetry]

Never ever listerned to loudspeakers loud, always been back ground music. However i have heard some real nasty in your face speakers that people seem to think is normal! Ive always been a vintage Castle man at heart cos these play very well at very low volume, something a lot of speakers cannot do.

[Joe]

I've had more grief from 'laid-back' than from 'reach out and grab you' loudspeakers, probably due in part to the room they were used in (large, high ceilings, heavily furnished). A 'brighter' balance helped in that I no longer fall asleep halfway through an album.

[Firebottle]

Yes I think they do need to 'grab you' in some way.

However I think that the 'grab way' can vary from person to person, depending on their tastes (dub bass and no treble just as an example) and previous experience of music systems.

I guess a good percentage on here want a wide frequency response not highlighted in any particular spot. Then of course there is the room response to factor in

Good question but with such variance of response, hearing, tastes and room factors I would hazard there isn't going to be an ideal 'grab' factor.

[Reffc]

It depends on a lot of things Martin, including sources used and music played (dynamics). For the most part, the speakers shouldn't draw too much attention to themselves in a boom-tizz type "hifi fireworks" type of impression. That's best left to the hii shows for the run of the mill boxes voiced to impress on first brief listen, the sort that are moved on within a few months of purchase! Things should imho sound "natural" and unforced with a good wide frequency response from a true 40Hz minimum (preferably lower) to over 15KHz before any roll off ( preferably higher) as we have to consider polar response and not just on-axis. They should also have a very smooth off axis response (polar response again) with no obvious waist or steps that cause phase-shifts and alterations to sound-stage. Such speakers are surprisingly few and far between.

I would take issue with having a "flat" in-room response as in truth, that would really sound quite fatiguing as it discounts absorption by soft furnishings in the upper HF region. Instead, the more naturally voiced speakers will have a gently sloped response with a slight tilt from bass to HF. However, the reality is that this is really only critical in the most sensitive of hearing ranges (say between 200 Hz to around 5KHz) and indeed, as one gets older, some lift from 6 or 7 KHz upwards is no bad thing.

All of this though is meaningless unless a threshold is established since the F-M effect will alter perceived response with SPL, so you must choose a design which works well and have the tailored response at the sort of SPL that you would normally listen at. Pointless having a flat response at 50dBA then making your ears bleed with a very lifted HF (and bass) response at say 80dB.

I voice my designs to have the tailored response between 75 and 80dB which allows a semblance of balance for a reasonable range of around 60 to 85 dB, the sort of level most of us listen between. This doesn't account for peaks in dynamic range which for a programme level of say 75dB can be up around 100dB.

The last point is important because you want a speaker that is well able to deliver clean peaks in transient response of over 100dB for realism. Its undesirable to have these peaks lifted too much above that for domestic purposes since we don't want our ears, or windows blown out. That's one of the reasons that mastering engineers apply compression. A lot is dependant upon the mastering but the above assumes good technique and a decent recording.

If it sounds right, and sounds natural and effortless with a good deep sound-stage and good off axis performance, chances are it is right and you'll enjoy them no-matter what the music. Get any of the above badly wrong and you wont.

the above is an over-simplification as there are a myriad of other things to consider including phase response, box colouration, spectral decay etc etc. The best sounding, more than usually, also measure that way. Your ears only confirm the soundness of the design.

[Macca]

So what are you using then Joe? My room is also large, high ceilings (well 9.5 feet so higher than a modern house) and heavily furnished.

[Joe]

So what are you using then Joe? My room is also large, high ceilings (well 9.5 feet so higher than a modern house) and heavily furnished.

I'm currently using Spendor D7s in the main system (the upstairs room has entirely different acoustics so isn't relevant in this context). The 'problem' speakers, ironically in view of Andre's comment above, were Castle Chesters. Nothing I used could wake them up, so I ended up listening via headphones a lot of the time.

[Macca]

All of this though is meaningless unless a threshold is established since the F-M effect will alter perceived response with SPL, so you must choose a design which works well and have the tailored response at the sort of SPL that you would normally listen at. Pointless having a flat response at 50dBA then making your ears bleed with a very lifted HF (and bass) response at say 80dB.

I voice my designs to have the tailored response between 75 and 80dB which allows a semblance of balance for a reasonable range of around 60 to 85 dB, the sort of level most of us listen between. This doesn't account for peaks in dynamic range which for a programme level of say 75dB can be up around 100dB.


.

That is something I hadn't really considered before. I guess this would be why all systems tend to have a sweet spot on the volume where it all comes together and a pint further on, possibly not much further, where it falls apart? Assuming it isn't the amp clipping that is.

[Rothchild]

In my studio I calibrate the volume in the room to a set level (using the K metering system ie. a -20dBFS test tone generates 83dB(C) SPL at the listening position) and this really helps to ensure there's consistency in my mixing, it also helps, if I'm listening in there, to determine how (over)mastered a recording is. A loudness war record makes it painful to bring the monitor controller much past half way but a nicely mastered recording could get turned very nearly all the way up (generally the dial only goes all the way up when I'm recording and mixing)

I only mention this as it sort of works as a corollary to Paul's observations about Fletcher Munson etc.

I think it's probably also valid to point out that a room with a flat frequency response is not necessarily a flat room as it's also about having an even decay time across the spectrum, which is very difficult to achieve.

As to whether speakers should 'grab you' I think not, but looking at my preferences against many members here it does seem that I like my hifi much more 'laid back' than many.

[Barry]

Speakers should never 'grab you' - the music should do that.

Speakers that 'grab you' are often described as 'impressive'. Another term of opprobium, as one quickly tires when listening to 'impressive' speakers.

(As a point of information, I use Quad 57 ESLs. Have done for forty years.)