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Thread: Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

  1. #1001
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Stupid cables.

    Day off today so thought I'd attack the hi-fi again. I've tried a lot of things trying to get back to the sound I used to have with the old Sony XB790QS - DCB1 + Krell KSA50S that was a close to perfect as I've ever heard.

    Someone said to me awhile back that the 'softness' that had been driving me nuts was just the 'character' of the Krell KSA100. I suspected they had to be wrong even though my practical experience was suggesting otherwise. This wasn't 'character', it was clearly that something was sitting on the sound. It was like you could tell there was a good system in there, trying to get out, but was just falling short.

    I thought I had tried everything - New CD player, nope that didn't cut it. Add one of the latest and best measuring DACs ever. Still not doing it like that old set-up. Different transports? Nope. Try different pre-amplifiers. Nothing happening. Deploy a 10 band graphic equaliser and rack up the HF a bit? Fun to play about with but still no dice.

    Running out of things to try I got to thinking about interconnects and speaker cable. When I got the first Krell I was using Chord Odyssey 2. Swapping that out for some nondescript 79 strand had made a significant improvement that time. Suddenly there was body and bass to the sound. Maybe cables were the key. I've always said cables are horses for courses. So I put in the same unbranded 79 strand stuff that nowadays is in use on the TV system.

    At first I thought it was maybe a little better but on extended listening the softness and lack of 'rez' to the sound was still there. Fail.

    Looked through all my other speaker cables ( must be at least ten sets), but wasn't convinced any of them would help. However while I was up there I saw a whole carrier bag of interconnects so pulled out some NVA SSC that I had used for years when I had an NVA pre-amp. Something in my distant memory told me that I had got these way back when I was having a similar issue (with a completely different set up) and they'd fixed it.

    So I swap them in and... well it doesn't solve the problem. In fact now it all sounds a bit weird, hard to put my finger on it but I switched the whole thing off and went and did something else instead for a bit.

    Taking some kit back upstairs in vain attempt to tidy up after all the messing about, I noticed some Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable lying under the bed. Well that did not suit the Krell KSA50S at all so surely not worth the bother to try it with the KSA100ii is it? But the Chord cable does have a rep for being 'bright' and it was brightness, or rather sparkle, that was lacking. So thought I would have one last go at it, took it downstairs and plugged it in.

    And bollocks, it actually does the trick.

    I mean I would not believe it if I was not sat here hearing it. No more 'shushy' cymbals! There's a couple of songs that have a big cymbal crash and decay, the start of 'Where Do You Think You're Going?' on Dire Strait's 'Communique' album, a number of them on Donal Fagen's 'True Companion' and all through the 'Nightfly' of course.' So I try all of these, and yes, the proper shimmer and decay is there!

    Not quite as good as on the old set up mind, that was just jaw-dropping in every respect, but at least it is there now and not just a frigging 'shush' sound. Plus the rest of the sound has opened up too, and although you'd think there must be a con-commitant drop in bass level, or quality, there isn't. That's better too.

    Why would a cable that was a poor performer on one Krell be the best option on another Krell? What's that all about? Impedance? I suppose everything comes down to bloody impedance at the end of the day. But it isn't really supposed to matter with cables.

    I had been toying with the idea of flogging the Chord cable as well, as it was quite expensive stuff and I figured I wouldn't have use for it ever again. There's a lesson - never sell anything!
    Great news, and glad that a simple tweak has resulted in such improved sounds!

    Did you DBA test for the difference beforehand, and 'measure' it to confirm it as being attributable to the installation of the new cables, and not simply the result of expectation bias, in order to prove to yourself that cables DO make a REAL difference, or were the results heard by yer LUGS plenty good enough as proof?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #1002
    Join Date: May 2019

    Location: Co.Durham

    Posts: 84
    I'm Frank.

    Default

    Aye...

    You just can't get away from system synergy...

  3. #1003
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,663
    I'm Gary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Columbo View Post
    Aye...

    You just can't get away from system synergy...
    Totally.
    What the whole things all about and what makes it work.

    Nice One Martin.
    Last edited by Gazjam; 03-08-2020 at 20:42.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  4. #1004
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,882
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Great news, and glad that a simple tweak has resulted in such improved sounds!

    Did you DBA test for the difference beforehand, and 'measure' it to confirm it as being attributable to the installation of the new cables, and not simply the result of expectation bias, in order to prove to yourself that cables DO make a REAL difference, or were the results heard by yer LUGS plenty good enough as proof?

    Marco.
    I would like to since that's always a possibility. It just isn't a practical proposition so I have to rely on my own flawed perception. I already had the cables lying about so at least it hasn't cost me anything to fool myself

    If the change wasn't real I will soon find out since it won't persist if it was just psychological.

    Assuming it is real it is still not quite where I want it to be. It's just a bit closer. I will try some other combinations of interconnects with the Chord speaker cable and see what happens.

    if I'd never done a blind test then I would be 100% confident it was real. But I have and it is frightening how much harder it is to spot the subtle differences when you don't know which is which. All that confidence in 'I know what I hear' drops away to nothing.

    On the other hand I did test using the specific 'musical occurrences' I mentioned rather than just listening generally and I'm reasonably convinced that they were better resolved than they were before.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #1005
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Lol, just pullin' yer leg, daftee! At the end of the day, whatever works for YOU, works, simples. And it doesn't need 'proven'

    Remind me again though, what was the reason for you losing the sound you liked before that was so close to what you've been striving for? Essentially, you have to get back to that point somehow and take it from there.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #1006
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,882
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Lol, just pullin' yer leg, daftee! At the end of the day, whatever works for YOU, works, simples. And it doesn't need 'proven'

    Remind me again though, what was the reason for you losing the sound you liked before that was so close to what you've been striving for? Essentially, you have to get back to that point somehow and take it from there.

    Marco.
    The Krell KSA50S went on the fritz. And still is on the fritz, not been able to sort it due to lockdown.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #1007
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Ah, I see... Now that lockdown is over though, your priority then should be to get the Krell fixed [so you can return to a happy place], as opposed to dicking around with other stuff, which at best will only provide a 'bandage effect'

    Couldn't Alan (Firebottle) pop round and have a look at it for you?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #1008
    Join Date: Nov 2013

    Location: HAMPSTEAD

    Posts: 1,156
    I'm brian.

    Default

    Thats what I suggested a few weeks back buts its a problem for him ( bless ) to get down the 6. Alan did a great job for me the other wk, good man to have onside .
    Ah, read your post correctly now Marco, you suggest Alan goes to Martins... CHEEKY

  9. #1009
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,882
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Alan's a bit far away for him just to pop round. At least an hours drive each way assuming traffic is fine which on the M6 is a pretty rare event these days.

    I did have the KSA50S re-built before lockdown but when I got it home it was completely dead. So it probably is something simple like a loose connection. But my usual EE is isolating as he is high risk due to various health issues so don't really want to bother him with it.

    What I have now is more than adequate for enjoying music on, I'm just being picky about the resolution in the top end, that's all.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #1010
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Fair enough, but have you actually contacted Alan to ask him, to allow him to make the decision? He's a helpful chap, and IME isn't averse to a trip out to bakeoffs (which in reality his visit would turn into) or to help a mate out with a problem

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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