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Thread: Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

  1. #1191
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,622
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Ah right, no what I meant was *intrinsically* in the voicing of the speakers, not something that's recently gone wrong, and which has been exacerbated by a change of equipment (post Krell failure, maybe?)

    Was the issue there before when the Krell was in the system, or at any other time? Can you remember exactly when it happened?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  2. #1192
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 5,622
    I'm Alan.

    Default Didital interconnect impedance matching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    No worries. Curiously, and I don't know why, I've found that longer lengths of digital cables sound best (the opposite of normal thinking), so after years of using 0.5m, like you, I placed my transport and DAC further apart and now use a 1.5m version of the same coaxial cable, and was rather surprised it sounded better.

    I think I've seen a technical explanation for it somewhere, which sort of made sense, but if you're curious you could always Google for it
    ...but if you can trust my findings, try it in a 1.5m length. I'm confident it'll be worthwhile sonic upgrade on what you're currently using

    Marco.
    Without trying to teach granny to suck eggs, the impedance matching is much more critical with high frequency digital signals.

    Weirdly I found that the coax input of the Topping D50 wasn't matched at all, a schoolboy error in my book, it was high impedance.
    Once I had fitted a 75 ohm terminating resistor it was much more rock solid.

  3. #1193
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,622
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Yes, Alan, I completely agree. That's one of the reasons I use Mark's cables, as they're genuine 75 Ohms, with the supplied Canare plugs.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  4. #1194
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 30,117
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Ah right, no what I meant was *intrinsically* in the voicing of the speakers, not something that's recently gone wrong, and which has been exacerbated by a change of equipment (post Krell failure, maybe?)

    Was the issue there before when the Krell was in the system, or at any other time? Can you remember exactly when it happened?

    Marco.
    When I had the Krell 50S in the sound was perfection. Since that went faulty I've tried all my other amplifiers including the other Krell and can't get that sound back 100%, it is very close except for the extreme top end not sounding quite right. Using the DAC as a pre-amo helped, the Audiolab transport helped, but it still isn't quite there.

    When Alan was round we tried his Neurochrome power amp and his pre-amp and the problem was still there, Which suggests it isn't the amplification. Except that with the Krell 50S in (it will work for a bit before it plays up) the issue pretty much vanished, Alan can testify to all this.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* SoncozSGD1 * Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  5. #1195
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,622
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Okies... For me then, that points to the speakers (how the upper-frequency response has been set via the crossover) and/or the characteristics of the tweeters, causing the issue in question, either or both of which the Krell successfully ameliorates.

    If you've tried everything else, and the problem still persists, except when the Krell is used, then logic dictates that's likely what it is

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  6. #1196
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 30,117
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    The speakers are getting on for 25 years old so probably not 100%. Even so it seems odd that only one power amp out of half a dozen sounds right with them.

    I could put this down to the other amps being old or not that good to begin with, but neither of those applies to Alan's Neurochrome amplifier.

    It's really a mystery, if the solution was obvious I would already have solved it!

    Really need these Tannoys to arrive, then at least I can rule out the speakers from the equation.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* SoncozSGD1 * Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  7. #1197
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 45,439
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The speakers are getting on for 25 years old so probably not 100%. Even so it seems odd that only one power amp out of half a dozen sounds right with them.
    Borrow a fifty quid ProArt from Alan. That'll make you do a double take!
    The word is 'valves' in this country, not tubes. Tubes are what Smarties come in!

  8. #1198
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,622
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    It's really a mystery, if the solution was obvious I would already have solved it!

    Really need these Tannoys to arrive, then at least I can rule out the speakers from the equation.
    Indeed, especially the latter. Any more news on that - has Shaun been in contact again?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  9. #1199
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 24,474
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    No worries. Curiously, and I don't know why, I've found that longer lengths of digital cables sound best (the opposite of normal thinking), so after years of using 0.5m, like you, I placed my transport and DAC further apart and now use a 1.5m version of the same coaxial cable, and was rather surprised it sounded better.

    I think I've seen a technical explanation for it somewhere, which sort of made sense, but if you're curious you could always Google for it

    Incidentally, if it's coaxial you think you'll be using, I would thoroughly recommend this 'no nonsense' stuff from Mark Grant, fitted with Canare plugs: https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk...al-coax-cable/

    ...but if you can trust my findings, try it in a 1.5m length. I'm confident it'll be worthwhile sonic upgrade on what you're currently using

    Marco.
    So you are no longer using the Trompeter cable I made up for you?

    The length effect manifests itself if either the output of the CDT and/or the input of the DAC are not matched to 75 Ohm. If there is a serious mismatch, then you need a long cable to increase the triple transit time and thus delay confusion this causes when the digital signal changes from 0 to 1 and vice versa.

    RCA phono connectors themselves can never be 75 Ohm impedance, despite what any manufacturer will claim. However the impedance mismatch occurs over a very short length (effectively the length of the mated connector) that it effectively self cancels. That is why SPDIF can 'get away' with using RCA phonos - to do the job properly, Sony and Philips should have specified the use of 75 Ohm BNC connectors. (This is completely different effect to the one of using long cables to increase the triple transit time.)
    Barry

  10. #1200
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,622
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    So you are no longer using the Trompeter cable I made up for you?
    Not right at this minute, Barry. I wanted to try a full 'loom' of the same (Mark Grant) cables, from source to speakers, which is what's now in place, but I intend on revisiting the Trompeter cable again, now that my ears have been 'attuned' to the sound of the Mark Grants, and see if there is any difference

    The length effect manifests itself if either the output of the CDT and/or the input of the DAC are not matched to 75 Ohm. If there is a serious mismatch, then you need a long cable to increase the triple transit time and thus delay confusion this causes when the digital signal changes from 0 to 1 and vice versa.

    RCA phono connectors themselves can never be 75 Ohm impedance, despite what any manufacturer will claim. However the impedance mismatch occurs over a very short length (effectively the length of the mated connector) that it effectively self cancels. That is why SPDIF can 'get away' with using RCA phonos - to do the job properly, Sony and Philips should have specified the use of 75 Ohm BNC connectors. (This is completely different effect to the one of using long cables to increase the triple transit time.)
    Yup, thanks for that, and noted. It's also the reason why I intend on fitting the digital output of my CD transport, and input of my DAC, with a BNC connector, then also changing the connectors on the coaxial cable, to BNCs. That's a project for later though, as it's not easy accessing the former.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

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