Hi Fi Retailers and the Future

[Ashley James]

Various remarks have been made to the effect that I'm bad news on Forums and that I've been spamming them to sell my Company. It's infuriated me because I don't believe that I have and I certainly didn't have that intention. All I wanted to do was defend ADM9s from a hatchet job by people who don't understand the implications of the technology. There only a tiny number of UK Forums where this has happened relative to the number Worldwide that are discussing us in a much more positive light.

I see myself as a victim rather than the aggressor and also that the instigators have been more dealers than enthusiasts. It's not surprising since ADM9s are replacing expensive and upgradeable systems, but I don't think that's all it is. In the days before the Internet, dealers were king, far fewer customers spoke to manufacturers and they controlled the customer and the deal. We were always suspicious of how good they were because so many leads were lost compared the number number of conversions we made here, but there was no way of knowing why.

The Internet changed everything (we've had a website for 9 years or so), there was a huge increase in correspondence from customers and many were very angry with the dealers and the advice they were giving.

I particularly remember one quite famous customer of ours saying: "Thank you for recommending dealer X, however I don't want Attitude because I get more than enough at home!" There's no need for me to elaborate and you might argue that since we disagree with much of the subjective stuff discussed on message boards, it's our fault for being different. Maybe, but I think if you look round a few, you'll see a lot of aggression from dealers and also arrogance. Exactly what I'm accused of! However I'm surrounded by highly qualified and trained engineers who try to keep me accurate, they are not.

Anyhow the reason that I've started this thread is because this morning I needed the telephone number of one who hasn't paid his bill, he sells very little and is always late paying. I searched google and came up with a forum for shops in his area and where the service he and the other give is commented on. Below is what I found:

Nice shop, interesting products. Knew their stuff.
Was this review useful? by Teaser, 03 Jan 2008
Staff here are rude and dismissive. Won't be using this place again.
Was this review useful? 1 by Andrea Shaw, 07 Feb 2007
Gave item for upgrade. Delayed. Numerous unreturned phone calls to find out what was happening. Did not even phone when item arrived back. Rubbish.
Was this review useful? 1 by Anonymous, 22 Jun 2006
Top of the range. You can't get much better than this.
Was this review useful? by Anonymous, 21 Jun 2006
Top of the range hardware and services. If you have £100,000+ to spend then these guys are for you.
Was this review useful? by Anonymous, 31 Jul 2005
I found the person there quite unhelpful. Normally when I go into a hi-fi shop the staff are inquisitive and friendly. Instead, I had to pry all the information I wanted. The staff just didn't seem to be interested.
Was this review useful? 1 by mystical, 28 Jun 2005
Expensive.
Was this review useful? 1 by Anonymous, 08 Jun 2005

In the old days if someone complained about a dealer, he was usually shit stirring because he hadn't got what he wanted, but now most of the complaints seem reasonable and there are far more. Some will happily pay us the full price rather go into one!

We've got a quite a few dealers and they are our friends, most do pretty well and if they don't or we get customers complaining, we sack them quickly, but it seems to me there is a problem and that it's worth inviting comments on AOS. Dealers are a significant chunk of these Forums so they can make observations provided they don't hide behind a psuedonym.

Ashley

[jcbrum]

I can think of two instances where Ashley's comments and my own experiences apply -

1. Myford Engineering, sacked all their dealers for being useless and opened a factory shop. The service and stock levels are superb.

2. Apple computer, has opened it's own chain of shops worldwide and also has one of the best web sites in the world.

In both cases they identified gross inadequacies in the retail trader and took steps to deal with it, to the customers undoubted benefit.

I believe Linn and Naim control their dealers to some extent, but their products are now thought to be poor for the money. I doubt personally whether they will be around much longer.

[anthonyTD]

Various remarks have been made to the effect that I'm bad news on Forums and that I've been spamming them to sell my Company. It's infuriated me because I don't believe that I have and I certainly didn't have that intention. All I wanted to do was defend ADM9s from a hatchet job by people who don't understand the implications of the technology. There only a tiny number of UK Forums where this has happened relative to the number Worldwide that are discussing us in a much more positive light.

I see myself as a victim rather than the aggressor and also that the instigators have been more dealers than enthusiasts. It's not surprising since ADM9s are replacing expensive and upgradeable systems, but I don't think that's all it is. In the days before the Internet, dealers were king, far fewer customers spoke to manufacturers and they controlled the customer and the deal. We were always suspicious of how good they were because so many leads were lost compared the number number of conversions we made here, but there was no way of knowing why.

The Internet changed everything (we've had a website for 9 years or so), there was a huge increase in correspondence from customers and many were very angry with the dealers and the advice they were giving.

I particularly remember one quite famous customer of ours saying: "Thank you for recommending dealer X, however I don't want Attitude because I get more than enough at home!" There's no need for me to elaborate and you might argue that since we disagree with much of the subjective stuff discussed on message boards, it's our fault for being different. Maybe, but I think if you look round a few, you'll see a lot of aggression from dealers and also arrogance. Exactly what I'm accused of! However I'm surrounded by highly qualified and trained engineers who try to keep me accurate, they are not.

Anyhow the reason that I've started this thread is because this morning I needed the telephone number of one who hasn't paid his bill, he sells very little and is always late paying. I searched google and came up with a forum for shops in his area and where the service he and the other give is commented on. Below is what I found:

Nice shop, interesting products. Knew their stuff.
Was this review useful? by Teaser, 03 Jan 2008
Staff here are rude and dismissive. Won't be using this place again.
Was this review useful? 1 by Andrea Shaw, 07 Feb 2007
Gave item for upgrade. Delayed. Numerous unreturned phone calls to find out what was happening. Did not even phone when item arrived back. Rubbish.
Was this review useful? 1 by Anonymous, 22 Jun 2006
Top of the range. You can't get much better than this.
Was this review useful? by Anonymous, 21 Jun 2006
Top of the range hardware and services. If you have £100,000+ to spend then these guys are for you.
Was this review useful? by Anonymous, 31 Jul 2005
I found the person there quite unhelpful. Normally when I go into a hi-fi shop the staff are inquisitive and friendly. Instead, I had to pry all the information I wanted. The staff just didn't seem to be interested.
Was this review useful? 1 by mystical, 28 Jun 2005
Expensive.
Was this review useful? 1 by Anonymous, 08 Jun 2005

In the old days if someone complained about a dealer, he was usually shit stirring because he hadn't got what he wanted, but now most of the complaints seem reasonable and there are far more. Some will happily pay us the full price rather go into one!

We've got a quite a few dealers and they are our friends, most do pretty well and if they don't or we get customers complaining, we sack them quickly, but it seems to me there is a problem and that it's worth inviting comments on AOS. Dealers are a significant chunk of these Forums so they can make observations provided they don't hide behind a psuedonym.

Ashley

hi ashley,
i have read many of your postings, and can say honestly that you have been mostly profesional in your comments and answers to shall we say "at times" very trying characters on here.what you dont seem to get is that people no matter how well a product is reviewed, or even if it can be proven that its the best thing since sliced bread is people like to have a choice! and i think i speak for all of us on here you included, when i say we are all at the end of the day, music lovers, but we perceive things diffrently to each other. at the end of the day what i am trying to say is, as good as your procducts probably are, and can be proven with test gear and such that they are, people will still want to be able to choose! for instance, why arent we all driving round in ford mondeos! their exceptionaly good cars! [humour me here] lets look at its statistics, it has four wheels, seats five people, comfortably, it has reasonable fuel economy, it goes very well, its not ugly, and so on, but we dont all want one! if it were forced upon us, we would rebel, no matter how good it is!
people on here, [for what i have seen of them since i joined] get upset because they percieve what your about as threatning their ability to think and judge for themselves what they should be listening to and buying etc, me i dont see you that way, infact i voted and expressed my views that there shouldnt be any constraints on what people can and cant discuss on this forum! but my friend you will have to except that you cannot, and will not please everybody all of the time, so, stop beating yourself up!
if i ever get a chance to listen to any of your products, i will, and i will make up my own mind, and tell you my findings.
and by all-means look me up, see what i am about...
i used to get upset, and wonder why some people can be certain ways, but i learnt that people will be people no matter how you try to educate, or prove things to them, so concentrate on the ones that want your help,and apriciate what you do, and what your about, thats what i do...
anthony,TD...

[Steve Toy]

Brilliant post Anthony. I have a dislike for absolutism and a liking for freedom of choice. There is more than one way to skin a cat etc.

Some of us really are discerning and capable of making our own minds up.

[Marco]

I'll get to this later. Excellent thread!

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

Brilliant post Anthony. I have a dislike for absolutism and a liking for freedom of choice. There is more than one way to skin a cat etc.

Some of us really are discerning and capable of making our own minds up.

Good thing too, as i am afraid if we werent we may all be speaking german now!
no offence intended...

[Marco]

Achtung Herr Svinehund!!

Marco.

[Ashley James]

hi ashley,
i have read many of your postings, and can say honestly that you have been mostly profesional in your comments and answers to shall we say "at times" very trying characters on here.what you dont seem to get is that people no matter how well a product is reviewed, or even if it can be proven that its the best thing since sliced bread is people like to have a choice! and i think i speak for all of us on here you included, when i say we are all at the end of the day, music lovers, but we perceive things diffrently to each other. at the end of the day what i am trying to say is, as good as your procducts probably are, and can be proven with test gear and such that they are, people will still want to be able to choose! for instance, why arent we all driving round in ford mondeos! their exceptionaly good cars! [humour me here] lets look at its statistics, it has four wheels, seats five people, comfortably, it has reasonable fuel economy, it goes very well, its not ugly, and so on, but we dont all want one! if it were forced upon us, we would rebel, no matter how good it is!
people on here, [for what i have seen of them since i joined] get upset because they percieve what your about as threatning their ability to think and judge for themselves what they should be listening to and buying etc, me i dont see you that way, infact i voted and expressed my views that there shouldnt be any constraints on what people can and cant discuss on this forum! but my friend you will have to except that you cannot, and will not please everybody all of the time, so, stop beating yourself up!
if i ever get a chance to listen to any of your products, i will, and i will make up my own mind, and tell you my findings.
and by all-means look me up, see what i am about...
i used to get upset, and wonder why some people can be certain ways, but i learnt that people will be people no matter how you try to educate, or prove things to them, so concentrate on the ones that want your help,and apriciate what you do, and what your about, thats what i do...
anthony,TD...

This has nothing to do with my products and everything to do with a widely perceived problem with retailers. The Forum comments I copied onto my posting came from people dissatisfied with the service they received from a hi fi shop, I've no idea what they were buying.

I think there is a tendency amongst people on Forums to assume that comments that are general are aimed at them personally. I've instanced auditory and perception experiments carried out by leading Universities to illustrate the problems of assessing hi fi that everyone has.

If intelligent discussions are ever going to take place, people need to ignore feelings that they have for or against others and they need to know that I don't do personal. I'm talking about problems we have assessing stuff as much as anyone on here.

The reason I mentioned ADM9s was to show sympathy for the controversy they've caused.

I think everyone knows that cars are good and Ford Mondeos very good, however they buy German cars for reasons of status, which also happens with hi fi, but there is a big difference between difference between bits of Hi Fi and a very small one between cars. Therefore you (the whole world and not you personally) need all the help you can get.

FORGET PERSONAL AND CONSIDER THE WHOLE PICTURE

[Ashley James]

JC Brum has made a good point too because Sky TV cut dealers out of the loop because all the research showed that it would twice as long to achieve the same market penetration if they used them!

Small shops of all sorts are failing in the UK, but not France because far too many of them don't deliver.

[anthonyTD]

This has nothing to do with my products and everything to do with a widely perceived problem with retailers. The Forum comments I copied onto my posting came from people dissatisfied with the service they received from a hi fi shop, I've no idea what they were buying.

I think there is a tendency amongst people on Forums to assume that comments that are general are aimed at them personally. I've instanced auditory and perception experiments carried out by leading Universities to illustrate the problems of assessing hi fi that everyone has.

If intelligent discussions are ever going to take place, people need to ignore feelings that they have for or against others and they need to know that I don't do personal. I'm talking about problems we have assessing stuff as much as anyone on here.

The reason I mentioned ADM9s was to show sympathy for the controversy they've caused.

I think everyone knows that cars are good and Ford Mondeos very good, however they buy German cars for reasons of status, which also happens with hi fi, but there is a big difference between difference between bits of Hi Fi and a very small one between cars. Therefore you (the whole world and not you personally) need all the help you can get.

FORGET PERSONAL AND CONSIDER THE WHOLE PICTURE

my comparison between cars and why people choose them is very relivent to hi fi and the diffrences are just as significant!
think about it ashley!!!
and by the way, i dont drive a mondeo, both my cars are german, one is very practical, but also very nice to drive, the other, well lets just say it brings a smile to my face every time i get in it!
anthony,TD...