Epiphany Acoustics

[jandl100]

Epiphany Acoustics is now closed for business.

Oh shite - what a shame - fantastic cables the Atratus III. I'll not be selling mine!

[RobbieGong]

How long do you need them?

Hi Kevin, I'd sent an email for custom length of 0.75m but obviously I'm more likely to now get a 1m pair from someone which would be fine

[hifinutt]

very sad , just seen the website

[wee tee cee]

The wee headphone amp was a cracker, still got mine. What a shame.

[Gazjam]

Always a shame when the little guy takes a hit.
They did some great bits of kit.

Life happens sometimes...hope all is well at Epiphany towers.

[StanleyB]

It's hard going for many small businesses in the UK. Chinese sellers are able to sell things into the UK without having to worry about such things as VAT, and just about any other EU regulations. This puts local businesses at a disadvantage straight away. Running cost of a small business is quite high these days. You really have to sit on some supporting capital in order to avoid interest repayments on loans etc.

[SLS]

It's hard going for many small businesses in the UK. Chinese sellers are able to sell things into the UK without having to worry about such things as VAT, and just about any other EU regulations. This puts local businesses at a disadvantage straight away. Running cost of a small business is quite high these days. You really have to sit on some supporting capital in order to avoid interest repayments on loans etc.

It's hard going for many small businesses in the UK. Chinese sellers are able to sell things into the UK without having to worry about such things as VAT, and just about any other EU regulations. This puts local businesses at a disadvantage straight away. Running cost of a small business is quite high these days. You really have to sit on some supporting capital in order to avoid interest repayments on loans etc.

I just bought in the USA one of the range of products formerly sold by Epiphany. I spoke to the business owner, who sells direct online in the USA with no dealers taking a cut. He will send to the UK, but you pay the Customs handling fee as well as VAT. Speaking to him, it just was not viable to sell the product in the UK at the USA price. I assume Epiphany stopped as it was not viable in the first place.

Suggesting Chinese manufacturers are more competitive because they break the law by not paying tax is disingenuous and an excuse for high UK production and distribution costs. My wife imports goods from China, they put the UK to shame. They produce much cheaper without quality compromise, which is why 80% of European brands are manufactured in the Far East.

The last component I bought was an Auralic Aries Mini. A streamer, DAC and NAS drive with incredible software that cost £375. That includes VAT and UK dealer margin. Tell me something as capable made in the UK at that price.

UK manufacturers have to make globally competitive products and, if they cannot, they are more than likely to fail.

[Reffc]

You cannot apply large business models to cottage industries which cannot generate the economies of scale but often produce high quality bespoke items at less than mainstream model prices especially where selling direct is concerned. From that perspective, they represent great VFM. The one valid issue that some may have is product support longer term. Many of us plan to be here for many years to come without risk of being forced to outsource manufacture to the Far East. Just as there are many well and cheaply made items in the Far East, there remain an equal number of false economy cheap and very nasty quality items also eminating from that direction too.

I would hardly accuse Epiphany of marking up all products which saw their premature end, so the comments about Chinese manufacture seem to have have no relevance here. I appreciate that you're not specifically talking about them, but this thread started about them and lumping all small businesses into one comparative model seems a little disingenuous . The reason most fail in the UK is because no one will support them or because they have been wildly unrealistic about sales or profits needed to operate a business to survive, which is in the interests of the customer. The reason no one will support many small businesses is because many people buy on brand, and more specifically, second hand sale strength of brand. There is another point in that much of Far East manufacture has been based on a bubble that is set to burst big time and pricing will start to rise (and already has in some sectors) in China. Lots of companies are relocating either back to Europe or to India.

[sq225917]

I wonder why he gave it up.

[SLS]

You cannot apply large business models to cottage industries which cannot generate the economies of scale but often produce high quality bespoke items at less than mainstream model prices especially where selling direct is concerned. From that perspective, they represent great VFM. The one valid issue that some may have is product support longer term. Many of us plan to be here for many years to come without risk of being forced to outsource manufacture to the Far East. Just as there are many well and cheaply made items in the Far East, there remain an equal number of false economy cheap and very nasty quality items also eminating from that direction too.

I would hardly accuse Epiphany of marking up all products which saw their premature end, so the comments about Chinese manufacture seem to have have no relevance here. I appreciate that you're not specifically talking about them, but this thread started about them and lumping all small businesses into one comparative model seems a little disingenuous . The reason most fail in the UK is because no one will support them or because they have been wildly unrealistic about sales or profits needed to operate a business to survive, which is in the interests of the customer. The reason no one will support many small businesses is because many people buy on brand, and more specifically, second hand sale strength of brand. There is another point in that much of Far East manufacture has been based on a bubble that is set to burst big time and pricing will start to rise (and already has in some sectors) in China. Lots of companies are relocating either back to Europe or to India.

The thread was about Epiphany closing. The product I was referring to was from JDS Labs, which I understand Epiphany rebadged. I am an accountant and it took me 10 minutes speaking to them to work out that there was no way of profitably importing into the UK. There is just no space for a dealer margin when the product is being sold direct online. There are an increasing number of such suppliers. I've been considering a passive pre-amp and all three options are direct online - Khozmo and Hattor (the same guy in Poland) and Tortuga Audio (in Florida). All such items are relatively cheap as there are no distributor or dealer margins, have been reviewed so they are likely to work, and are cheap to send internationally. Just remember to add the VAT to the price.

I also see that Epiphany tried to sell JDS Labs products on Amazon UK. My wife is an Amazon reseller. I know the costs. It is not viable. Cannot compete with buying it direct from JDS Labs online. (I bought their superb DAC for $165.)

I cannot see any future for electronics manufacturing in Europe other than volume direct sales (JDS Labs in the USA sell many thousands of units per annum) or at the very high end where price is almost irrelevant. A small cottage industry may well remain, but of no significance to the market overall.

Speakers are slightly different because they are sometimes bulky and the electronics are a relatively small proportion of the manufacture cost. Still, most are made in the Far East. I've had UK made speakers, PMC and more recently two pairs of Harbeth. The cabinets are production-line made in the same factory to a very high standard. Made bespoke would cost about three times the price. I know because I once got a quote. Curiously, the SHL5+ probably costs more to make than the PMC Fact.8, but sells for half the price. PMC market heavily, Harbeth hardly at all (they don't need to). You can't copy a Harbeth speaker because the heart of the range is the Radial 2 driver, made in-house and not sold to third parties.

The relevance of China is that I replied to a post that implied Chinese goods have an advantage through fraudulent non-payment of tax. Not true. My family made products consisting of brass hand-turned in Birmingham and coloured glass made in France (extremely difficult to make, has to be cooled over 2 days). The business was profitable for 80 years. Then the Taiwanese worked out how to make the glass, they managed to make the same product to the same quality and it arrived in UK bond at half the price. So still a third cheaper even after paying VAT and Duty. So my father closed the company.

I used to go to the brass factories as a kid. I was in Birmingham a year back - not a lot of brass turning going on.

I don't consider there to be separate business models for large or small companies. Ever since commerce started the basic principle is to generate enough gross profit to cover overheads and make a profit. It doesn't matter if you focus on high margins/low volume (UK cottage hifi, Waitrose), low margins/high volume (Japanese hifi, ASDA) or low product costs (Chinese hifi, Tesco - when Jack Cohen started he focused on buying cheap), it comes to the same thing - you need enough gross profit to pay overheads - and if anyone thinks they can cheat that system, they won't last long.