2m Black vs Denon DL-103

[Jimbo]

Hi James, Just my tuppence worth but personally I’d look elsewhere in terms of an ‘improvement’. The Black in my experience is a stonking cart. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had the itch too, that’s the nature of the beast that is. However, unless you are gonna spend a good amount more then I believe you’ll get different and not necessarily better. As you know the Black isn’t flavoured it just gets about playing what is on the record retrieving oodles on the info on there. When my system has been at it’s best in terms of set up I have been astonished at the ‘honesty’ in which the Black presents the music. What I mean is no two recordings sounded the same – exactly !! each recording had its sound not a flavour / obvious characteristic / signature sound. This was a revelation for me and addictive! Good recordings were just that, bad ones were revealed but the ‘music’ was always there. My system is currently going through a few big changes and I’ve been ampless for ages but the Black will most definitely remain. The one cart I hanker for is its bigger brother the Cadenza Black as I believe it does the same but with even better / more of the same but at a price. Obviously if you want something different then that’s fine. As I say, just my tuppence worth.

Good council I think Rob. I have had a suspicion that in order to better the 2M in my system which had real synergy with the Croft, I would need to go to something like the Cadenza Black or Bronze?

[Ali Tait]

Not convinced they would better the DL S1 - don't let the relatively low price put you off.

[RobbieGong]

Not convinced they would better the DL S1 - don't let the relatively low price put you off.

Not really thinking subjective better but I think the word different would be more accurate and that's cool if that's what James is after. I'd have the Cadenza anyday over the DL S1 and that without having heard either

[aniki]

FWIW as a Quintet Black owner I can recommend that it'll give you more of what you already have just with a little more detail and a little more refinement.
I was using an S1 until very recently. I certainly didn't find it lacking in bass but it's a very different animal altogether. In fairness it wasn't a great match for my tonearm but for me, although it could dig out amazing amounts of detail it lacked 'boogie' factor.
I agree that cheaper MC carts will likely leave you wanting compared to what you're used to.

[Marco]

I'd have the Cadenza anyday over the DL S1 and that without having heard either

<Cough> Come round to mine, young man, and I'll educate you differently on that matter!

The DL-S1, properly partnered and set-up, is a stunning sounding cartridge. Not easy to get the best out of it, though...

Marco.

[Marco]

2M Black or DL-103? It's a *very* different sound. For me, pretty much all Ortofon cartridges these days sound somewhat 'cold' and overtly 'hi-fi' in nature. A DL-103, however, heard at its absolute best (which, quite frankly, not many get to hear) is, to my ears, a fundamentally much more musical listen.

Indeed, I'd take my Shure M55E (with brand new NOS stylus) over the 2M Black... It's essentially about trading (ultimate) detail retrieval for musicality. Get a 103 *right*, however, and you don't lose very much at all in terms of the former, but are rewarded in SPADES with the latter, especially when listening to vintage jazz recordings or rock and pop. It boogies like a bastard!

Marco (not a big fan of how most modern cartridges are 'voiced').

[aniki]

2M Black or DL-103? It's a *very* different sound. The latter however, heard at its absolute best (which, quite frankly, not many get to hear) is, to my ears, a fundamentally much more musical listen

See my experience is pretty much the exact opposite of that. But then again I'd wager not a single person on this forum likes the same music as me :-)
Proving yet again that one mans trash is another mans treasure.

[Marco]

Sure, Adam, it all boils down to your relevant experience, musical and sonic tastes. However, in terms of a DL-103, have you heard it on a high-mass 'S'-shaped 9 or 12" Japanese Tonearm, through a top-notch SUT and/or head amp, and into a top-notch valve MM phono stage?

If not, then, you haven't really heard it. Only by inserting it into the above set-up, as outlined, does the magic happen....

Marco.

[Arkless Electronics]

I'm a fan of the 2M black. Very nice indeed and personally I'd put it miles above a DL-103....
I'd take MP3 above a Shure M55E!

[CageyH]

The SAE1000LT is hardly new.
For something different for the 2M Black I am tempted by the AT150ANV, then I don't need to bother with SUTs and Head amps, meaning more money for the cartridge. I have a standard AT150MLX which I am using as we type, and it sounds more musical/less HiFi than the 2M Black.

It's a shame I don't live closer to you James, as you would be welcome to borrow the SAE1000LT for a listen in your system. Sure, it probably can't compete with a Cadenza Bronze or Black, but the outlay is substantially less.

That is the one thing Imdon't like about vinyl systems - it's very difficult to try a cartridge before committing to it financially.