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Thread: Help - moved Harbeths to a bigger room and now they are a bit 'lost'

  1. #1
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 60
    I'm Andy.

    Default Help - moved Harbeths to a bigger room and now they are a bit 'lost'

    Hi folks,

    Hope you are all well.

    I have a simple 'upstairs' system consisting of a Cyrus Streamline v2 and some Harbeth P3ES2 speakers, with Atlas Hyper 2 speaker cable. I've just had to move it from a smaller room (12 x 8), where it sounded amazing, to a larger one (18 x 18 plus an 'l shaped bit') and now it sounds completely lost. Great as the speakers are, I just don't think they move enough air to fill the room up.

    I'm guessing that the only thing I can do to fix this is to try for some larger speakers. For the use this system gets, I can't really justify the £2.5k plus for larger Harbeths, so I wondered if anyone had some ideas for bigger speakers with that sort of sound? I tried a pair of Roksan TR5s with the Cyrus and they sounded pretty good but, even then, I'm not sure they were quite enough for the size of room. I'd ideally like standmounts for aesthetic reasons.

    Suggestions for replacements for the Harbeths (which will be appearing for sale on here shortly I guess) very welcome.

    Finally, the Streamline is only 30w/channel. Is this likely to be an issue in a room, of this size? I do like a bit of volume sometimes

    Cheers,

    Andy

  2. #2
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: East Anglia UK

    Posts: 1,219
    I'm Marc.

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    Square rooms are worse for sound and 18x18 puts a number of nodes in the lower mid (~150-250Hz) http://amroc.andymel.eu/

    Before reaching for you wallet for new speakers it might be worth experimenting with speaker and listening position / placement (if you can)

  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 60
    I'm Andy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rothchild View Post
    Square rooms are worse for sound and 18x18 puts a number of nodes in the lower mid (~150-250Hz) http://amroc.andymel.eu/

    Before reaching for you wallet for new speakers it might be worth experimenting with speaker and listening position / placement (if you can)
    Thanks Marc - that's an interesting site. Could get expensive though, resizing the rooms in the house to get the 'best' dimensions. I have fairly little flexibility regarding speaker positioning in the new room (a couple of feet left/right per speaker and maybe 2 feet back/forth), however I'll give it a try. My gut instinct is that, while this might well help, they P3s are maybe a just too small for the room. I've tried them as 'near field' monitors on a big desk and they are incredible. I reckon that given their pint-sized proportions though, I might just be asking too much from 'em.

    Thanks, Andy

  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

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    If you really want to fill the room then you could consider adding a subwoofer (or 2). I know quite a few folk use a sub or subs with little Harbeths.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: Essex, UK

    Posts: 3,445
    I'm Andy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    If you really want to fill the room then you could consider adding a subwoofer (or 2). I know quite a few folk use a sub or subs with little Harbeths.
    Good idea, could you listen nearfield in your new room?
    System; Michell Gyrodec SE/ Orbe Clamp/ Gert Pedersen armboard mod/ HR PSU/ SME V / J7 Tonearm cable/Ortofon Cadenza Black// Jez Arkless Turbo nutter B------ /Trichord Dino+

    Amplification and loudspeaker set up is at the moment being split into two groups, comprising the following;


    1. Same sources as above; SONY TAF-770ES/SONY CDP761E/Cable Talk 3.1 loudspeakercable/ Harbeth Compact7ES2/ Stands

    2. Virtue Audio Sensation M451battery PSU, ClarityCaps upgrade/ Sensation M901/Russian PIO caps with Teflon bypass caps upgrade/ JT Dynamic PSU with various tweaks/ Connex Audio 5N Litz loudspeaker cable, Impulse H6 Loudspeakers.




















    Me so horny- Impulse H6 Horny

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jul 2011

    Location: Northamptonshire

    Posts: 1,914
    I'm Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    If you really want to fill the room then you could consider adding a subwoofer (or 2). I know quite a few folk use a sub or subs with little Harbeths.
    Very much this!
    I have a REL T9 which completely transforms the P3ESR's sound ... not just at the low end, but throughout, especially soundstaging. Try to borrow one ... if you were closer, I'd lend you mine.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: SE London

    Posts: 501
    I'm Andrew.

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    A sub might help but the P3s still have small drivers and you don't get the same body and richness in the midrange as the larger Harbeths. I would try and find a pair of Compact 7s, which are the most similar in character to P3s, and are good value second hand if you can find them. However it is worth noting that your P3s are very inefficient and 30W is the bare minimum amplifier power for these speakers. A larger room will expose this limitation.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Aug 2015

    Location: Ukraine, Kherson

    Posts: 211
    I'm Sergio.

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    Squire room - death for LF band. It's from my experience.
    Future is bright, great and positive.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 60
    I'm Andy.

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    Hi folks,

    Thanks for this - I hadn't actually considered a sub! I guess I'm a bit old fashioned and consider them an AV thing However, I have an inexpensive Yamaha one that goes with my Soundbar and I guess I could try this first to get a general idea.

    I'm guessing that, if a sub looks promising, I'll need to get a 'proper' one though. Are there any rules for matching subs to speakers.

    Good point about the sensitivity of the Harbeths. I'm actually considering adding a Cyrus X Power to the setup anyway (or shuffling some other hardware around), so I'll try the Harbeths with a punchier amp (like my Kandy K2) when I try the subs.

    Whoever said that the P3 has very little drivers though is absolutely right.

    Cheers,
    Andy

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: cheltenham

    Posts: 746
    I'm matt.

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    The Bk Subs are quite popular and very good value for money (I don't think you could build them yourself any cheaper). Just make sure you choose a sealed sub, they're better for music.

    If you can't sit nearfield then some acoustic panels on the walls should help to give a more direct sound.

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