Why HiFi Doesn't Work

[Rob Sinden]

Hi

Today I was invited to join The Art of Sound, probably because my views about audio reproduction are a bit controversial and so are likely to provoke some heated debate. So for what it’s worth here’s my 2p on the subject and a little background about how I arrived at this conclusion.

Please don’t be insulted if you don’t like my views – it’s just hifi.

My name is Rob Sinden and I run a company called Gecko that imports hifi and home cinema equipment.

I got the hifi bug when I was a teenager, religiously read hifi magazines and buying the best hifi I could afford. I was happy with my system but when I started my own hifi shop in 1991 I soon became disillusioned with the quality and consistency of hifi available. What I quickly learned was that buying the best audio equipment would not result in a system that accurately reproduces music or film.

The problem was that the bigger speakers that I think are essential for lifelike bass sound very different from room to room because of the impact of the rooms’ acoustics.

I had 3 very different sized demonstration rooms but my favourite speakers didn’t sound good in any of them. Fortunately most of them did sound great in my flat but this wasn’t much help for my customers who wanted to reproduce this same quality of sound in their homes.

As a result of me learning about how inconsistent hifi is I got out of the hifi business and started up the first business in the UK specialising in home cinema.

Although there is a great deal of snobbery about home cinema, there is a lot more money in this industry and as a result it has attracted many of the finest audio engineers available. I have had training from several independent organisations such as THX, PMI and HAA all of which approach the reproduction of sound in a similar way. This addresses room layout, room treatment, use of separate satellite speakers and subwoofers, calibration and room correction.

These methods are based on hard, logical science and are the methods that independent experts recommend for producing optimal performance.

If you think for a moment how carefully rooms are designed and treated in the world of professional audio, such as in recording studios, cinemas and classical concert venues you can see how much care is placed on room acoustics.
In the world of hifi however the effect of the room is either ignored or paid little attention which is one of the main reasons why good hifi’s give such poor results.

I have recently started selling hifi as well as home cinema systems as I have found a company whose products can be corrected to match the acoustic space that they are used in.

For me, these are the only hifi and home cinema systems that I have ever heard that sound truly life like. They are expensive but they work.

To put these claims to the test I have built what I believe are the UK’s finest demonstration rooms for people to audition these systems. If you’d like to come for a listen, drop me a line at rob@geckohomecinema.com or read more at www.geckohomecinema.com

[DaveK]

Hi

Today I was invited to join The Art of Sound, probably because my views about audio reproduction are a bit controversial and so are likely to provoke some heated debate. So for what it’s worth here’s my 2p on the subject and a little background about how I arrived at this conclusion.

Please don’t be insulted if you don’t like my views – it’s just hifi.

I have recently started selling hifi as well as home cinema systems as I have found a company whose products can be corrected to match the acoustic space that they are used in.

For me, these are the only hifi and home cinema systems that I have ever heard that sound truly life like. They are expensive but they work.

To put these claims to the test I have built what I believe are the UK’s finest demonstration rooms for people to audition these systems. If you’d like to come for a listen, drop me a line at rob@geckohomecinema.com or read more at www.geckohomecinema.com

Hi Rob,
Hopefully you'll extend the same courtesy to others who reply and not be insulted if you don't like our views. I read the first few paragraphs of your post with a rapidly increasing sense of "When is the sales pitch coming, what's he selling", and then it appeared.
There may be much in what you say about AV and hi-fi and the snobbery in there, but what is it about your (imported ?) system that makes it so good - I will read your links and assess what there is in there that answers these questions.
And yes, I have been accused of being a bit cynical from time to time .
Cheers,

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Rob

Hope you are keeping well.

Dave Robs one of the good guys, I used to have dealings with him when he represented M&K and I was in the trade before my redundancy.

I agree with some of what he says but not all of it. However rooms are the lottery of audio and very little has been done on this side of the Atlantic to offer solutions to what we all have to live with. Acoustic solutions be they passive or electronic are not the whole story and while the pro/home-cinema side of the industry can teach the 2 channel audio side a lot so can the 2 channel side of things. Its a question of balance and very few Home Cinema systems are totally at home with 2 channel music...they compromise it to much. This is mainly because of their complexity and lack of dedicated power supplies (in regard to audio needs), and digital processing pollution. The very best home cinema gear only just bests what mid price dedicated audio can do. Let there be no mistake here, I am a Home Cinema user too, though I don't talk about it much nor have I posted photos etc of it, but the one thing I learnt very quickly about it is that it just does not do music well so I keep the two apart. But if a company can blend the kind of acoustic modeling some H C products can (and I know Tact and Lygndorf have), and allow the quality of 2 channel to shine i.e serve the music and not throttle it then I would be up for that.


Regards D S D L

[Alex Nikitin]

Why HiFi Doesn't Work

My first comment is simple: if it does not work for you, it may work for other people . My approach to hi-fi is exactly like yours - based on my own understanding of what I like in the sound reproduction. However it takes me in the opposite direction. I can happily tolerate many imperfections (room acoustics and lack of low bass included) if the system delivers music in a natural way, preserving the low-level ambience. For me almost all kinds of digital processing is a deadly blow to the sound quality - and without such processing it is impossible to do what you do. People are different and so is their understanding of what makes good sound .

Cheers

Alex

[HighFidelityGuy]

Hi Rob, welcome to AOS.

You raise some very interesting and important points.

I'm currently investigating room treatment and EQ to cure some issues I have after I gained some promising improvements from some cheap and simple testing. Based on this recent experience, I agree that room acoustics play an incredibly important role in home Hi-Fi and cinema setup and that this is something that is usually overlooked by most consumers and those so called experts in the industry. I know I've never had room acoustics mentioned to me during a demonstration at a dealers shop and I've rarely seen it mentioned in magazines. I think this is something which is changing slowly over time, especially in the home cinema market as more and more products are now being released to combat the effects of room acoustics. However, the Hi-Fi industry still seem to be fairly set in their ways and opinions. I think a lot of this stemmed from bad experiences with early EQ units that often did more harm than good. Thankfully technology has moved on a great deal since then. Unfortunately many people still see room correction as being non-purest and somehow negative.

The Hi-Fi industry seems to be built around the idea that spending more money will always provide you with better results and if you're system isn't sounding the way you want it to it's because you need to swap something for a different make or model, usually more expensive than the one you have. While this will be the way to cure some problems, it's certainly not always the case. The possibility of tuning a system and room to work together properly is rarely considered.

Personally I don't think your opinion is very controversial at all and I'm sure you'll find others here that share your opinion. However, I can imagine that not all members will agree that you're products are the best but that's to be expected. Hi-Fi is a very subjective area after all. I'm sure your knowledge on the subject will be a welcome addition to the forum though.

[Dave Cawley]

The Hi Fi industry is driven by the customer, it's that simple!

Dave

[Clive]

Hi Rob and welcome!

I'm definitely in favour of treating rooms. I'm lazy and haven't performed physical treatment of my room (also because it's aesthetically intrusive), I instead use DSP on just the bass. My room's particularly bad for room modes as it's essentially square with a bay at one end.

Room before DSP


Room with DSP

[DaveK]

Hi Clive,
What is the PC programme that you used to produce the traces that you posted, if indeed it is a PC programme. I'm 'into' PCs and hi-fi in an interested amateur way so I'd like to know if it's something I could 'play with'.
Cheers,

[Rob Sinden]

Thanks for the welcome and letting me share my views.

I'm sure I'll be posting a lot of stuff in the future to explain what is different about the systems we sell, but of course the real issue is how does it sound?

I have made the claims that the Lyngdorf and Steinway Lyngdorf systems that I sell are the only systems I have ever heard that truely sound like live music. Would anyone like to come for a listen and report back on thier findings? I'm in Newbury, Berkshire and am happy to meet with people anytime including evenings and weekend....

[hifi_dave]

Rob, just cut to the chase and tell them how much it costs. Might save a lot of posts.