Happy Anniversary - taking a Pink Triangle for a spin

[Oldpinkman]

Sorry

Just realised someone asked about AK and spin. I believe he will offer it as a PT replacement bearing for general purchase, but it is not currently listed so I don't know when. It is just another non-inverted bearing - although on a forum full of people discussing which Technics just another non-inverted bearing is best...

The bearing has been discussed elsewhere - in this guise it is sapphire thrust plate and ceramic ball (the posh version)

[Spectral Morn]

I never know where to start with forum experts.

Wow and flutter can be measured and was.

The UNIT cost of a moulded lid is much lower - and Linns was a standard size manufactured in volume - they even made it available to other manufacturers.

Richard

As someone who worked in the trade back then, who had to set up many of the turntables the business sold, in my view only the Anniversary represented a quality level of fit and finish re build quality commensurate with selling price. The PT1 and 2 were in my direct opinion - re fit and finish - not and the way examples look now days shows they age very poorly. Yes they sounded good and could hold their own re performance to a degree, but I am sorry the inside was a dogs dinner - in my opinion.

Aerolam may be hard to cut but the awful - dare I say amateurish - jagged, uneven, edges bent sub chassis was poor. I am afraid the Victorian view if it isn't on display what does it matter how it looks does not hold water these days (nor should it ever have) and quality engineering should go hand in hand with excellent build, fit and finish.

Back in the day the Xerxes (not a fave of mine re its awful set up quirks), the Source, Voyd Valdi, Michell turntables etc all offered better build quality fit and finish, not to mention the turntables from Alphason (except their entry level effort which was awful in my opinion). My choice back in the day was the Voyd Valdi.

I wasn't going to comment but felt I had to because you dismissed valid points re build quality, which in my view and direct past trade experience reflects the accuracy of the other views being expressed.

Being honest Richard your view of Pink Triangle in my view seems to be somewhat blinkered and viewed very much through rose tinted glasses using nostalgia as lens.


Regards Neil

[Oldpinkman]

You know I treasure all the wisdom and kind words from people sitting at keyboards miles from being able to hear it. Sue, who has been busy at down to listen, heard one track, turned open mouthed and said "surely that's the best you've ever heard. She's only known me a few years, and I heard some serious kit way back as a callow youth. She's never heard an anniversary. But you know. I'm not sure it's not the best I've heard.

But you guys know better I'm sure

[karma67]

from reading the posts no ones saying its not a bad sounding turntable,just that the build quality is pants.
the main deciding factor for me going from an AR turntable to the lp12 is that i can still go out and buy new parts.

[Spectral Morn]

You know I treasure all the wisdom and kind words from people sitting at keyboards miles from being able to hear it. Sue, who has been busy at down to listen, heard one track, turned open mouthed and said "surely that's the best you've ever heard. She's only known me a few years, and I heard some serious kit way back as a callow youth. She's never heard an anniversary. But you know. I'm not sure it's not the best I've heard.

But you guys know better I'm sure

No one has dismissed your 'advertorial' - listening experience - but the comments re the quality of fit and finish relating to pre Anniversary Pink Triangle products are accurate - they were very badly built and the quality did not match the price being asked - in my opinion.

The worst one could say about Anniversary was the packaging did not prevent broken or smashed top plates occurring, where I worked we got several at different times like that. Nice turntable though. I liked it particularly at the time with SME 4 or 5 and Kiseki carts. The PSU looked good too unlike the thin metal walled, poorly finished items that came with earlier Pink Triangles.


Regards Neil

[fordy]

I had various PT's, continuously over a period of 25 years and a string of LP12's latterly too (and of the suspended belters, many Thorens, Gyrodeck et al.) so naturally have an opinion on this subject.

The first I had (for 15 years in all) was a Little Pink Thing and that, as a late model PT was a very nicely built thing, much superior to the Axis actually (which I also had at one point). Sadly both models had issues in subsequent years with their power supplies.

After the LPT I had a lovely Export (for a few short months) which I thought was a nicely built machine, the equal of the LP12 at that time in terms of build yet superior in terms of sound (IMHO of course :-D). The design had been refined enough by the Export days and the build quality improved a lot. Certainly the engineering concept was superior to the LP12 of the day which hadn't developed a huge amount at the time (post-Nirvana/Valhalla but pre-Lingo/Cirkus).

Shortly after that I got an Anniversary which I owned for many years (finally sold only a few weeks ago) and this was not only the ultimate expression of Arthurs 'sound' engineering at PT, it was, as pointed out by others, representative of just how far Pink Triangle Projects had come in terms of build quality. The one I owned never went wrong, right from new in 1992, to this day. It also remained one of the finest bouncy belt drive TT's I ever owned (including 5x LP12's from very early to very late models, from basic to more recent advanced models, with many of the best 'aftermarket' parts including Chris Harban plinths, and Khan toplates and all the latest trimmings and never ever ever did any LP12 I owned come even close to the Anni in terms of sound quality, or even build quality for that matter. The fact that an LP12 needs the equivalent of a Maven to set it up says the design itself is fundamentally flawed. I love record players in all forms and although I can be a bit scathing of LP12's at times, they were a frustrating experience, I do really like them (absolute fave was a classic 'Naimed' late 80's model in Black Ash ;-). I'm done with bouncy belt drives now though, favouring high mass designs.

For sure, early PT's, even PT Too's were inferior to the Linn build quality back then but in all honestly none of these early fruit box designs moved the game on significantly from the first of their breed (AR / Thorens TD150, owned). In the grand scheme of record player design and build quality, comparing contemporary 80's Pinks and Linns is splitting hairs.

A modern Linn though is a highly refined expression of that particular design and wants for nothing in terms of build quality, but then since the mid-90's Anni, its got another 20 years of development of engineering precision, manufacture and materials thinking on its side. Why the Linn prevailed and the Pink failed is simply a matter of history and the very fact that Linn WAS continuously developed and supported makes it a better ownership proposition for many today.

[paskinn]

I lived near the Camberwell 'factory' and Arthur and Neil used to bring round their prototype Anniversarys, one of which actually spun backwards. I owned production unit Number three, and later, a high-number production deck. They did improve greatly in production quality, later ones built by an excellent Antipodean called Brett were very competitive with Linn and so on. In sound quality, they were, for me, streets ahead of the competition, with a quite wonderful mid-range, unobtainable on rival decks. The Anniversary is one of the finest sounding decks ever built (well, to me anyway) but Pink were Pink, and the customer support was just not good enough. Pity.
Now they are costly to buy, but there is a reason for that.......get one well-serviced, put on an SME Five, off you go on a magic ride. You could still do a lot worse.

[Oldpinkman]

Peter

I remember Brett - and the pony tail. You are right about the Anni with a SME5 (or Helius Orion) but having heard AK's restored unit - out of the loft at last - with an FX3 then that is another level. It's a pity the new one is going to be so expensive, but Arthur has learned from his mistakes - and finish is intended to be in the £10000 class. The original PT and Pip were massively over-specc'd for their original price, hence the poor finish, and the way to get out of that hole was to change the products a bit and launch Mk2 at a big price hike as a big improvement. I have a recently restored Pip and Pip2 side by side to compare. Pip 2 is a tiny bit better - with the battery supply a tiny bit more than that. But not £500 to £3000 better. Pip 1 should have been £1500. Pip 2 addressed the poor construction issues of Pip 1 as well as (pretty minor) circuit changes.

As I have been corresponding with Kevin privately, Spin really surprised me. I still have to pinch myself to believe it, and frankly wonder how fussed I am about the other mods I had planned. Arthur is unbearably smug - with "I told you so". Maybe I'll upgrade the motor, but for the rest - I'm not sure. OK its not an Anni - but its much more like an Anni than any other turntable.

[smedley]

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but I have a related question. I have owned an LPT-GTi since new (1993) and generally the build quality has been fine (apart from a couple of PSU issues). I recently acquired a lovely late model Export-GTi which has similar PSU issues (motor runs backwards). I had decided to go down the route of replacing the PSU with an external power supply (Heed Orbit 1). However, I am now wondering whether I should 'bite the bullet' and go for the full K Drive/DC motor option. Does anyone have any comments/advice/experience of the K Drive/DC motor - eg is it reliable, is it speed stable, is it worth the significant extra cost, etc?

Thanks in advance.

[Oldpinkman]

Hi Simon

K Drive is reliable and Funk's "rolls royce" solution. The VX is a more affordable version (about half price) and at least as good as (ok - plenty better than) the original export motor and electronics. I think if it were mine (and lets face it, apart from motor position, the motor and the electronics are the main differences between our decks) I would go for VX and a spin bearing. K-drive if you can afford both - but in terms of SPPV or whatever it is called - VX will do a perfectly adequate job, and spin will be an eye-opener.

DC motors are imho (and yer man AK's) infinitely preferable to AC motors. The AC motor in Export and LPT were used due to enormous pressure from the market to "use the Linn / Rega motor" - largely due to Martin Colloms (well we liked to blame him anyway). Linn have of course now introduced a DC motor as their "top" LP12 drive option long after PT was driven into the dust by this.

So, I would go DC, choose VX unless you are on a mission for "Anni copying" like I was, and with the money you save get a spin bearing. (Actually - check with Funk, because I am not sure spin for Pink Triangles is available to the public, and if it is, it needs a bonded achromat on the platter to centre it when fitting. It's not that hard, but its not a direct one for one replacement for the old bearing)

K - Drive is reliable. VX would be the obvious "Export level" equivalent DC upgrade