Cartridge upgrades

[markf]

So what are we saying here......Don't buy an expensive cart. I'm currently using a ZYX
R100 YATRA and when it is time to replace it ,I was going to go for something more expensive ,
maybe stay with ZYX or try something else. (I like the look of the latest Ortofon , the A90)
I have an old NAGAOKA MP11 Boron, should I really be using that instead of the ZYX ?

[Dave Cawley]

Hi Mark

I think we are saying is that if you can "easily" afford it, then do spend a lot of money. But that the better value is in the under £400 range. Most of my listening is done with an AT-OC9ML/II and Shelter 501/II, others quite rightly prefer the DL-103 (/R /S/A)

If money didn't mean much to me I would have a Koetsu Rosewood Signature in a heartbeat, why not?

Regards

Dave

[Varun]

Replacing cartridges every x-number of months- depending on the usage- is a monumentally expensive affair. That is where re-tipping whether people like it or not is so cost effective and I for one did not feel the worse for it-as the workmanship was consistently excellent.

As far as I know- the work of art has to show itself in sound- but then bulk of sound reproduction should have been sorted out in the more permanent side of the equipment- the TT and the amps etc. My criticism would be of those who use a mid range equipment at all levels and suddenly plonk the most expensive cartridge in at the other end.

My bigger criticism is - using it for listening to music which is not worth it- in the sense that the improvement in electronically amplified music to which all Rock/Pop genre belongs-is make believe. So for that purpose spend as much as you like. Jean Michel Jarre's music is an excellent example.

Viva Linn-Naim influence on people's ears

[Clive]

So what are we saying here......Don't buy an expensive cart. I'm currently using a ZYX
R100 YATRA and when it is time to replace it ,I was going to go for something more expensive ,
maybe stay with ZYX or try something else. (I like the look of the latest Ortofon , the A90)
I have an old NAGAOKA MP11 Boron, should I really be using that instead of the ZYX ?

I have a ZYX R100 (not the YATRA version), I also have an Ortofon Kontra B. My London (Decca) Jubilee leaves them well behind, in comparison the ZYX and KB are lacking life and are woolly in the bass and we're not talking a subtle differences here.

The Jubilee is expensive (£1200), the Londons further down the range provide the same sort of sound but with a slightly less cohesive sound. You could consider Super Gold, Gold or Maroon depending on what you're willing to spend.

I should add that the Londons can be a little picky about ground connections, in some setups they need care to avoid hum. Worth the hassle though!

[hifi_dave]

The London (Decca) cartridges are wonderful but are not for everyone and they need the right arm and TT to get the best from it. The excitement, dynamics, speed, detail and sheer involvement leave practically everything else way behind and they are good value for a hand made, hand tweaked cart.

I think that with every expensive cartridge, if you like it and can afford it then why not ? It might not be value for money but like fine wine, watches, exotic cars and the like, it's up to the buyer to decide what is value.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Quoting: Varun
My bigger criticism is - using it for listening to music which is not worth it- in the sense that the improvement in electronically amplified music to which all Rock/Pop genre belongs-is make believe. So for that purpose spend as much as you like. Jean Michel Jarre's music is an excellent example.

Varun,
Statements like that make me a little agitated – you have also spoken like this in another thread recently and I chose not to comment then. This time, however, I cannot let it go unmentioned.

The sort of attitude that you are displaying here seems to exist exclusively with lovers of classical music – why is that?

Please don't deride all music other than classical as 'unworthy' because it is amplified. I love many forms of music, including classical, but this superior stance you seem to be exhibiting is not flattering to you.

If you don't understand the enjoyment others get from amplified music, then please don't deride it. Rather, you should celebrate the fact that they have a love of music – any music.

There is as much to be heard from amplified music as any other – and in fact is it not the case that the recorded orchestral music which you love so much is captured by a chain of electronic devices almost as long as that in a rock/pop recording?

Does none of that have an influence on what you are finally hearing?

I'd say that unless you are in the room with the players & their instruments, then it's all make believe. Electronic instruments and amplifiers simply broaden the range of sounds available to a musician – just as two violins from different makers can have a different character of sound, so do two amplifiers such as a Vox AC30 and a Fender Twin Reverb.

I personally don't like the music of Jean Michelle Jarre, but is it somehow less valid as something by, say, Beethoven, Schubert or Liszt? Electronic instruments require the same skill and sensitivity to effectively convey the emotion of a piece of music as any other. In fact, I know competent players of orchestral music who merely play by numbers (the score) & freely admit that their biggest struggle is to put real emotion into a piece – and you can hear it too!

If composers who used themes from folk music like Dvorak and Smetana had been alive today, don't you think they would be drawing on contemporary music in their work? – Not to mention Bartok, who plagiarised folk music just as shamelessly as The Rolling Stones & Led Zeppelin did!

It's all just music – if there is something you don't like, that's fine – don't listen to it. But by dismissing it as inferior, you are the one who will lead a less rich life than those who recognise that all music has equal validity.

[Varun]

great stuff Chris,

If I may clarify- of course I listen to all sorts of music including Weather Report- all electronic and greatly admire what they do- so much so that in my most humble opinion- they were ahead of their time.

Anyway- the issue is strictly- about music reproduction-by a stereo system and the standards there of- AND not about Genre or type of music. On this issue we (both) seem to agree that acoustic music is the best yardstick- as do Barry and Marco.

So question specific for this thread was- and when I talk-usually it is in a very specific sense- was how can one prove (I need proof before I spend) that a 3K cartridge is better than a 1K cartridge when the reviewers call the shots based on opinions which is more than half of the time very questionable and again in my most humble opinion based on selection of music-with no yardstick to speak of.

I always steer well clear of subjects about personal choices- it is the proof- the solidity of evidence I am looking for and being a scientist consider most reviewed opinion-abysmal-but then that is the world we live.

[Dave Cawley]

how can one prove (I need proof before I spend) that a 3K cartridge is better than a 1K cartridge

Go to a dealer and listen!

Dave

[The Grand Wazoo]

how can one prove (I need proof before I spend) that a 3K cartridge is better than a 1K cartridge

Go to a dealer and listen!

Dave

Yes, the Mk I lughole is the best tool you have to do that job!

[Varun]

All I would say about classical music is that we live in a world saturated by it- be it advertisements or backgrounds music for many of the serials televised- and yet most people do not appreciate it.

At a personal level I look beyond tunes and repetition and of course there are some brilliant composers in Rock/Pop field whom I admire and like very much and have their records.

Beyond these short comments- the issue of classical music I raise is sheer scale and dynamic range- from a Hi Fi reproduction point of and nothing else.