Imaging and brightness ?

[hayche]

Is there a link?

My last system was mdac/croft integrated/tannoy dc6. It had beautiful imaging and soundstage with percussion hanging in front of me and floating around the soundstage, virtually no bass and bright. I ripped the system apart and wasted money before I realised it was the tannoys I had changed everything.

Now I have Musical fidelity v90 dac/rega brio r/epos k1. I have a great balanced sound with no brightness but the imaging is nothing like my last system. I now seem to have, and be very aware of left,right and centre (mono) in my system. I love the sound I have now and can listen to it forever but it would be nice to get some of that imaging back in the future with an upgrade ,If that is possible without brightness? It's a totally different system now so I do not know if it's any given component giving me the lesser imaging. Soft dome tweeter,brio or v90. Any ideas? Or is it a case of ,choose imaging and brightness or choose warmness and non fatiguing without the imaging? I do have basslines,drums and vocals ,basically anything panned centre mono suspended between my speakers so I do have decent imaging. Just no voodoo trickery. Pretty simple how I think vinyl would sound

Howard

[Tim]

Don't just lay the blame with the Tannoys, the MDAC is known to be bright and lively, which many people love - I couldn't get on with it at all and found it very fatiguing to listen to for long sessions. The MF V90 is a good DAC, but not very exciting or what I would call musically engaging. If you like what the Brio-R is giving you, you should really try a Rega DAC with it, you might I think be getting closer to what you like when it comes to imaging and a more realistic soundstage. If you can try one at home Howard, then it just might just put a smile on your face?

[hayche]

Thanks for the response Tim.

I was hoping the lack of trickery would come down to the dac and not the brio r ,or the speakers. The dac is the easiest upgrade for me and I live the brio sound. I have had a rega dac in the past and it was very lively with percussion imaging with the croft and tannoys. Local dealers all said the dc6 are bright which made me put the blame on them.
Maybe another mdac could be key for me as the epos speakers are quite laid back ,the rega could make it even more so. Mdac could bring it forward hopefully.

Cheers
Howard.

[Audio Advent]

My idea on imaging is that so much of the info the brain uses to set up that illusion is in the high-mid to treble region, where the wavelengths are the shortest, and also in phase relationships. I'd guess that by having a more prominent mid-high to treble, you make it easier for the ear/brain to hear these relationships and so set up the imaging illusion better.

More complicated than that of course with cross-overs changing phase relationships and cabinet's deflections too.

[Gazjam]

You can have imaging without brightness..just need a really resolving "realistic" sounding system.

All the detail, all the zing and imaging you could want...but not in your face.
Hard to get there, takes a good system that does that without being artificially accenuated.

Had the Rega dac in a previous system with the Brio-R.
The Rega was a lot. Better than the Mdac for me because it gave NATURAL spark to the music as opposed to the Mdacs digital glare.
Never got on with the Mdac anytime I tried it because of this.

[Audio Advent]

Speaker positioning can have a big effect on imaging too and will be different for each pair.. difficult to know if a change in speaker imaging is down to the inherent sound of the speaker or the different requirements to have it sounding it's best.

[337alant]

Capacitors in the signal path is where its at for me

Alan

[Barry]

Speaker positioning can have a big effect on imaging too and will be different for each pair.. difficult to know if a change in speaker imaging is down to the inherent sound of the speaker or the different requirements to have it sounding it's best.

I agree. Howard, have you tried altering the angle of the speakers with respect to your listening position? It could make all the difference.

[tiguan]

I agree. Howard, have you tried altering the angle of the speakers with respect to your listening position? It could make all the difference.

In addition with that I recommend to check tweeter height relative to ears at listening (sitting) position.
Some bookshelf are more sensitive to that.

[Reffc]

I agree. Howard, have you tried altering the angle of the speakers with respect to your listening position? It could make all the difference.

+2

If you had it before and you don't have it now and the only change (that is since you changed everything else!) was the speakers, there's your clue.

You can have imaging and bass, the two are not in any way related. Bass is to do with your speaker's design and LF extension capability and imaging is to do with several aspects of replay. These include the way a recording itself is mastered, mid and HF resolution, speaker's off axis and driver relative phase response, and channel separation design and performance of your source and amplification components. It's also to do with your room and speaker interaction.

Before spending any more money where it may not be needed, here's a few tips:

1. See if you can place speakers so the tweeter is at ear height when you are seated, and that there is nothing directly between the speaker baffle plane or between speakers and you.
2. Move speakers if possible so that they are well away from side walls. If you cannot do that, try to have them so distance between side and rear walls is unequal.
3. As Barry suggests, toe in the speakers so you listen directly in the tweeter axis.

My experience of just about all modern MF DACs and CDPs is of brightness (that I personally couldn't live with) and because the Tannoys you mention can be a little forward sounding, careful partnering would have been recommended, so MF front ends would not have been my personal choice here, but you are where you are so trying to make the best of your current set up is wise before deciding on the slippery kit merry-go-round options