Very interesting post, thank you Andrei.
I can't understand the meaning of the graphics but I'd like to try a different bearing (I have the original one).
Very interesting post, thank you Andrei.
I can't understand the meaning of the graphics but I'd like to try a different bearing (I have the original one).
Location: Dagenham Essex
Posts: 11,215
I'm Allen.
I'm no engineer , however from memory i did see some images of the Mike New bearing out of the housing and the spindle is bigger ( tried to find the photos )
If the mass of the bearing spindle is bigger in a bigger housing surly it will have a larger contact area , spindle to housing contact , this will add friction and will result in shorter run down time , Is run down time relevant ? as its only running time accuracy that counts , The 1210 has a fine direct drive motor that copes with the bigger bearing and different types of platters and can maintaining speed accuracy ( just my opinion as a numpty )
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Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 1,519
I'm Andrei.
I don't know what oil it is but it is the oil that was supplied by Mike with the MNB.
The Funk Bearing is extremely interesting and a polar opposite of Ian's approach. Peek is very hard but relative to Sapphire it is soft. One method is to obtain the benefit of a hard substance, and the other is to obtain the benefit of a slippery substance. Different approaches. I would certainly like to give Arthur's bearing a go but I suspect the use of Sapphire makes it expensive.
This is all tricky stuff for amateurs like you and me. I think the larger area would therefore spread the weight and produce less friction, or at least less friction per given area, just say sq mm for example. As against this there would be, as you say a larger area. I don't know if they are equally relevant. It is interesting to compare the readings for the IanMac bearing with and without added oil. The oil seems to make for some drag and that is why the readings are for a shorter run-down time. That is ok by me if the rumble is actually less. The motor of the SL1200 copes with this bit of drag without issue. The most significant comparison is between the IanMac (without oil) and the stock bearing. What is shows to me is that there is less friction - it is as simple as that. In fact my subjective listening is that it is quieter.
This leads to the Audacity readings. I was hoping to get some objective idea of the noise floor of the rumble with the IanMac bearing compared with other options. Really I am just looking to find the quietest bearing.
I should say that is not necessarily the be-all and end-all. The MNB does seem to be good for extra weight of heavy platters, mats and and record pucks. There is an obvious disadvantage of extra weight, but likely outweighed (sorry) by the benefit of more inertia.
[COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105 [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood). [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
[/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello. [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]
The trouble with Audacity and recording noise from a silent groove is that the actual bearing noise is swamped by shit laptop and phonostage noise.
Better to perform a wavelet analysis of the recording to see the power distribution around the speed of Rotation. Unless you're more interested in how each bearing transmits other sources of noise from within the rest of the deck.
Re spin down speed. My deck is dead stop in less than five seconds and I'd put it's speed stability up against any deck at any price. And that's with a bearing that does better than -73db.
Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 1,519
I'm Andrei.
These noises are kept to a minimum due in part to the PC being specifically designed for music playback, and in the case of the phonostage I have fed the MC output into the MM input to reduce its impact. But the more significant point is that all the bearings are measured with the same noise.
No idea what a "wavelet analysis" is. There will be other noises within the deck but that is part and parcel of how noisy each bearing is.
You have the best deck I am sure with the best speed stability. Can that information be extrapolated to the technics?
Comparing the spin down times of the Ianmac bearing and Stock bearing*: Is there anything other than friction that could explain that?
* not the MNB or IanMac in an oil bath.
[COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105 [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood). [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
[/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello. [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]
Does it sound better than MNB playing music. That is all I want to know...
Turntable 1: Technics SL1210M5G/ KAB PSU/ KAB Fluid Damper
Turntable 2: Rega P3 (new) Tangospinner & dual belt/ Rega Neo
Amplifier: Rega Elex-R
RIAA: Rega Fono mk3 & Schiit Mani
Speaker: Klipsch RP280f
Cartridge: Rega Exact & Nagaoka MP-110
Sorry, Andrei, for me, all this pish with graphs is largely meaningless. I hate it when audio gets too bogged down by bloody measurements, especially in this case when those taken don't really have much relevance...
At the end of the day, all that matters is if you've upgraded the bearing on your turntable, whether or not you can hear a significant sonic improvement, and if that improvement has resulted in a greater enjoyment of your favourite music, which I'm sure is the case with those who've fitted one of Ian's modded Technics bearings.
On a subjectivist-orientated forum such as this, that's all most folks are interested in reading
The above is certainly the case with those (including me) who've fitted a Mike New bearing, who are absolutely delighted with it as a result, and have no intention of changing it.
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
Ah, I see that Chris has beaten me to it!
Yup, as they say, ditch the 'bull' and just cut to the chase....
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
Who knows - The Funk bearing may sound better.
To be honest, I think it will be difficult to tell the difference between all of the bearings unless each is measured.
Kevin
Too busy enjoying the music....
European loan coordinator for Graham Slee HiFi system components..
SOURCE:OPPO UDP-205 BluRay, SkyQ, Technics SL1210M5G/HexMat Eclipse/MN Bearing/Origin Live Gravity One puck/Isonoes with Boots/Jelco TK-850S Tonearm/Hana Umami Blue, PS Audio Stellar Phonostage. I also have an AT-OC9XSH as a spare cartridge.
AMPLIFIER: Bryston BR-20 Pre/DAC/Streamer & Bryston 4B3 Power Amplifier
SPEAKERS: Spendor D7 on Iso-Acoustics Gaia III’s
HEADPHONES: OPPO PM-1 with Atlas Zeno cable, B&W Pi7 S2 and B&W C5 v2.
CABLES: Analogue: Speaker Atlas Mavros Grun. Interconnect - Atlas Mavros XLR x3, MCRU Silver Tonearm cable
Digital:Audioquest Carbon Ethernet x 4, Audioquest Carbon digital, English Electric 8Switch, Chord Optichord, Atlas Optical.
Mains: PS Audio Perfectwave AC-05 x 5, Isol-8 Powerline Extreme with Quantum Science yellow fuse on input cable, Sounds Fantastic 6way Mains Blocks.
STORAGE: Synology DS216J NAS with 2 x 3Tb WD Red hard-drives. Samsung 500Gb SSD.
TV LG55B7 OLED