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Thread: IanMac Bearing

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jun 2014

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    I'm Eugenio.

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    Very interesting post, thank you Andrei.
    I can't understand the meaning of the graphics but I'd like to try a different bearing (I have the original one).

  2. #12
    Join Date: May 2012

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    I'm I'mteachingmarcotheartofpishanto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei View Post
    No. What would you calculate and measure?
    I'm no engineer , however from memory i did see some images of the Mike New bearing out of the housing and the spindle is bigger ( tried to find the photos )

    If the mass of the bearing spindle is bigger in a bigger housing surly it will have a larger contact area , spindle to housing contact , this will add friction and will result in shorter run down time , Is run down time relevant ? as its only running time accuracy that counts , The 1210 has a fine direct drive motor that copes with the bigger bearing and different types of platters and can maintaining speed accuracy ( just my opinion as a numpty )
    Music , fills the gaps between silence !

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  3. #13
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: Napier, New Zealand

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    I'm Andrei.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CageyH View Post
    Peek is a good choice, as peek ceramic bearings are quite common.
    I would suggest that your choice of oil is not the best.

    It would also be interesting to compare the funk bearing, as this is another proven combination of materials.
    I don't know what oil it is but it is the oil that was supplied by Mike with the MNB.

    The Funk Bearing is extremely interesting and a polar opposite of Ian's approach. Peek is very hard but relative to Sapphire it is soft. One method is to obtain the benefit of a hard substance, and the other is to obtain the benefit of a slippery substance. Different approaches. I would certainly like to give Arthur's bearing a go but I suspect the use of Sapphire makes it expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Al View Post
    I'm no engineer , however from memory i did see some images of the Mike New bearing out of the housing and the spindle is bigger ( tried to find the photos )

    If the mass of the bearing spindle is bigger in a bigger housing surly it will have a larger contact area , spindle to housing contact , this will add friction and will result in shorter run down time , Is run down time relevant ? as its only running time accuracy that counts , The 1210 has a fine direct drive motor that copes with the bigger bearing and different types of platters and can maintaining speed accuracy ( just my opinion as a numpty )
    This is all tricky stuff for amateurs like you and me. I think the larger area would therefore spread the weight and produce less friction, or at least less friction per given area, just say sq mm for example. As against this there would be, as you say a larger area. I don't know if they are equally relevant. It is interesting to compare the readings for the IanMac bearing with and without added oil. The oil seems to make for some drag and that is why the readings are for a shorter run-down time. That is ok by me if the rumble is actually less. The motor of the SL1200 copes with this bit of drag without issue. The most significant comparison is between the IanMac (without oil) and the stock bearing. What is shows to me is that there is less friction - it is as simple as that. In fact my subjective listening is that it is quieter.

    This leads to the Audacity readings. I was hoping to get some objective idea of the noise floor of the rumble with the IanMac bearing compared with other options. Really I am just looking to find the quietest bearing.
    I should say that is not necessarily the be-all and end-all. The MNB does seem to be good for extra weight of heavy platters, mats and and record pucks. There is an obvious disadvantage of extra weight, but likely outweighed (sorry) by the benefit of more inertia.
    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood).    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR]    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
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  4. #14
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

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    I'm Simon.

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    The trouble with Audacity and recording noise from a silent groove is that the actual bearing noise is swamped by shit laptop and phonostage noise.

    Better to perform a wavelet analysis of the recording to see the power distribution around the speed of Rotation. Unless you're more interested in how each bearing transmits other sources of noise from within the rest of the deck.

    Re spin down speed. My deck is dead stop in less than five seconds and I'd put it's speed stability up against any deck at any price. And that's with a bearing that does better than -73db.

  5. #15
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: Napier, New Zealand

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    I'm Andrei.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
    The trouble with Audacity and recording noise from a silent groove is that the actual bearing noise is swamped by shit laptop and phonostage noise.
    These noises are kept to a minimum due in part to the PC being specifically designed for music playback, and in the case of the phonostage I have fed the MC output into the MM input to reduce its impact. But the more significant point is that all the bearings are measured with the same noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
    Better to perform a wavelet analysis of the recording to see the power distribution around the speed of Rotation. Unless you're more interested in how each bearing transmits other sources of noise from within the rest of the deck.
    No idea what a "wavelet analysis" is. There will be other noises within the deck but that is part and parcel of how noisy each bearing is.

    Quote Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
    My deck is dead stop in less than five seconds and I'd put it's speed stability up against any deck at any price. And that's with a bearing that does better than -73db.
    You have the best deck I am sure with the best speed stability. Can that information be extrapolated to the technics?

    Comparing the spin down times of the Ianmac bearing and Stock bearing*: Is there anything other than friction that could explain that?

    * not the MNB or IanMac in an oil bath.
    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Sources:[/B] [B]1[/B][/COLOR] PC & Wyred4Sound DAC-2 DSDse   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]2[/B][/COLOR] Oppo BDP105   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]3[/B][/COLOR] Technics SL·1210 MK5 (Jelco 750D · Benz Wood).    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speaker Cable[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Nordost Frey.[/COLOR]    [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Interconnects [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Oyaide[/COLOR][COLOR=black] & [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Geisha [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Silver.
    [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#a52a2a]Phono Stage [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]Fosgate Signature V2. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Preamp [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Ayon Eris[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]   [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Power Amp[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=Black]ATC P1. [/COLOR]  ​ [COLOR=#a52a2a][B]Speakers[/B][/COLOR] Triangle Magellan Cello.     [COLOR=#A9A9A9]Oh Sting, where is thy death?[/COLOR]

  6. #16
    Join Date: Nov 2013

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    I'm Chris.

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    Does it sound better than MNB playing music. That is all I want to know...

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  7. #17
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 88,529
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Thumbs up Ditch yer graphs and just listen to the music!

    Sorry, Andrei, for me, all this pish with graphs is largely meaningless. I hate it when audio gets too bogged down by bloody measurements, especially in this case when those taken don't really have much relevance...

    At the end of the day, all that matters is if you've upgraded the bearing on your turntable, whether or not you can hear a significant sonic improvement, and if that improvement has resulted in a greater enjoyment of your favourite music, which I'm sure is the case with those who've fitted one of Ian's modded Technics bearings.

    On a subjectivist-orientated forum such as this, that's all most folks are interested in reading

    The above is certainly the case with those (including me) who've fitted a Mike New bearing, who are absolutely delighted with it as a result, and have no intention of changing it.

    Marco.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 88,529
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Ah, I see that Chris has beaten me to it!

    Yup, as they say, ditch the 'bull' and just cut to the chase....

    Marco.

  9. #19
    Join Date: May 2012

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    Who knows - The Funk bearing may sound better.
    To be honest, I think it will be difficult to tell the difference between all of the bearings unless each is measured.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jul 2013

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    I'm Clive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisKemp View Post
    Does it sound better than MNB playing music. That is all I want to know...
    Good question. I would very much like to know the answer to that. Forget graphs and statistics because you can get any answer you want from them. Does one sound better than the other? If music be the food of love, play on.......... Oh heck I'm waffling.
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