'Front end first' - yes, but make sure you go right to the very front...

[Mike Reed]

Hmmm ... sorry, but that does sound a bit scary to me. Some folks just aren't cumfy with that sort of thing.

Jerry, what on Earth is scary about it? You have AT LEAST as much protection as you have on your ring main(s) as far as I can see. (normal circuit-breaker plus residual current device for earth aberrations)

You don't HAVE to dispense with the 13 amp. plugs, but this adds yet another 'bottleneck' which is surely superfluous when you consider the case fuses are well below that limit. I remember the old round-pin plugs (much favoured in the seventies/eighties as an upgrade) which didn't have fuses at all!

Jettison the case fuses. Now that's getting a bit scary, but there are people out there who think it's a risk worth taking. I suppose generating your own power or tapping in to your local hydro-electric plant (if you're a mountain man flat-Earther) might be beneficial, but simply having your own hifi circuit just doesn't stack up as a dangerous sport, I.M.O.

[Ali Tait]

Interesting thread.I can see the value of lowering the supply impedance Marco,but the fact is that the electrickery arrives at your door after travelling down miles and miles of over and underground cables,through junction boxes,substations,transformers etc,picking up all sorts of RF and other crap and hash on the way.(maybe I should mention at this point that I'm a project manager for an electrical company that is involved with the high-voltage electricity supply industry) but I find it hard to credit that a 1 metre piece of expensive cable on the end of all this can make much,if any,difference.I can see how mains regenerators etc could improve matters somewhat,and also how lowering supply impedance could help,but installing a dedicated ring or spur for your system to avoid interference from household appliances seems a drop in the ocean to me.Having said all that,I've not heard an A/B comparison of a system with and without a dedicated supply,so would be happy to be proved wrong! It just seems to me to be like trying to stop the tide coming in with a bucket.

I really wouldn't recommend having no protective devices looking after your kit.Fire and hi-fi don't really mix...

Regards,Ali

[Marco]

Hi Ali,

I know exactly where you're coming from. "Why a 1 metre piece of expensive cable on the end of all this can make much, if any, difference" has been the subject of much forum debates over the years!

But make a difference it does - and a significant one at that. Some reasonable objective theories on why this happens have been mentioned. When the 'other thread' calms down I'll see if I can remember any of them!

But if what I'm doing has a measurable effect of lowering the impedance then I must be doing something right...

Separate spurs also noticeably improve the sound. Now and again I compare this effect by plugging my system into a wall socket (via a mains block) that's connected to the house ring main and then into my dedicated mains set-up using the same test music. The difference isn't subtle

Marco.

P.S Look forward to meeting you on Saturday

[Mike]

Earth rods plunged into my garden and connected to the dedicated consumer unit I use for my hi-fi; the difference that made was amazing in terms of how it lowered the impedance on my mains supply (particularly when kept wet) and the way in which this impacted on the performance of my system.

Marco,

If you need to keep them wet by 'watering them', then I'm afraid you've not installed then correctly mate!

I'm guessing they've been 'hammered' into the soil vertically? If so, that's not the way to do it!

Best way (and no-one ever does this) is to dig a deep trench long enough for the rod to be buried horizontally. It needs to be deep enough for the soil to be permanently wet, or at least damp, and covered in a generous layer (all around the rod) of carbon. Crushed BBQ charcoal is excellent.
Then refill the trench while seriously compacting the soil as you go. Viola! One very consistent earth!

Unfortunately it will still corrode away in time and need to be replaced.

It's a ball ache, but worth it.

[Ashley James]

Interesting thread.I can see the value of lowering the supply impedance Marco,but the fact is that the electrickery arrives at your door after travelling down miles and miles of over and underground cables,through junction boxes,substations,transformers etc,picking up all sorts of RF and other crap and hash on the way.(maybe I should mention at this point that I'm a project manager for an electrical company that is involved with the high-voltage electricity supply industry) but I find it hard to credit that a 1 metre piece of expensive cable on the end of all this can make much,if any,difference.I can see how mains regenerators etc could improve matters somewhat,and also how lowering supply impedance could help,but installing a dedicated ring or spur for your system to avoid interference from household appliances seems a drop in the ocean to me.Having said all that,I've not heard an A/B comparison of a system with and without a dedicated supply,so would be happy to be proved wrong! It just seems to me to be like trying to stop the tide coming in with a bucket.

I really wouldn't recommend having no protective devices looking after your kit.Fire and hi-fi don't really mix...

Regards,Ali

Please give this man a common sense medal!

It was Linn that persuaded everyone the source was the most important part of a system, when coincidentally, he was flogging a turntable. Before then everyone knew that Loudspeakers were the weakest link in the chain and they still are! Especially as we now have nice consistent digits to process.

[Marco]

LOL. What are you doing on this part of the forum? This is a subjectivist haven.

Heretics aren't allowed here!

Marco.

[Marco]

Mike,

I take you're point, but if I'm getting a reading of .32 ohms impedance on my supply then I can't be going too far wrong!

It goes up quite considerably if I disconnect the decdicated Earth

Marco.

[Mike]

Marco,

S'ok mate, no-one installs them properly TBH. It's just another one of my little 'hobby horses', knocking em in vertically is just 'bad practise', the stories of them going through cables, drains, water pipes etc. are myriad. The worst of all has to be a sewer main, know one knows its happened for ages, maybe years, until one day your garden is awash with shi.... oh, you get the picture!


How are you measuring your earth impedance BTW?

Cheers,
Mike.

[Marco]

Mike,

My local friendly electrician (who's a personal friend) has carried out the test on a few occasions throughout my 'journey' with the mains. He installed my current set-up. He's also very interested in hi-fi, which helps! Every time he affects an upgrade we measure the results - it's all very enlightening

I presume he uses a multi-meter of some description, or whatever else one would use to measure the impedance.

Marco.

[Mike]

I presume he uses a multi-meter of some description, or whatever else one would use to measure the impedance.

That would be an 'earth loop impedance tester' normally. It's just that I've got one that you (or anyone else for that matter) can borrow if needed.

Cheers,
Mike.