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Thread: Vintage Sheep.. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 377
    I'm Andre.

    Default Vintage Sheep.. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

    Why is it that people follow other people like Sheep, popularising certain old gear making it the in thing to have when there are other pieces just as good or better at lower prices. Price hikes on these popular pieces are mind blowing in some cases. I was always in the thinking that old stuff that fetches high prices because they sold small quanities in the day either due to the then high prices compared to competition or they were generally deemed rubbish!! The latter would not suprise me beacuse like music that people did not like decades ago, have a totally different view of these days however this is not the case with Hi-Fi.. the over priced stuff is not reare & quity plentiful.

    It does not matter if it is made in England, Europe or Japan. unless you on an engineered Nostalgia trip, but the majority of Audio guys are not.

    Id love to know whats making these people tick!

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 3,816
    I'm Robert.

    Default

    I think I get what your trying to say....

    You'll always have your chances ie: sellers who know that certain items have gained a reputation / are sought after.

    Whether the sought after tag is justified is always open to debate, that's why I / one should always do their homework, ie: research the item(s) extensively as the truth and what you really need to know will become apparent, for truth, therefore the good the bad and even the ugly (if that applies to a particular piece) in regard to issues to be very aware of like, prone weaknesses, unobtainum parts etc. Recurring points from users, from different sources, about a piece are likely / usually accurate you'd be safe to say, as well as 'characteristic' or sonic signature.

    It's only by adopting this common sense approach / attitude will you truly know if something is all it's allegedly meant to be or if it is indeed for you.

    To just go in blindly because of 'name/status' is yes, maybe 'sheep-like' but most certainly a mugs game and potentially throwing good money at bad

    As for vintage and why what you call 'sheep' follow. There are a number of reasons for that which I'll try and touch on.

    There was some superb kit produced in the hey day of hifi. I'm old enough to remember when there were shops dedicated to hifi on every high street, in every town centre and the same for record stores - big ones too.

    Some refer to this period for hifi -70, 80's, v early 90's as the 'heyday'.

    With the number of hifi manufacturers competing against each other (particularly the Japanese hifi producers), for a big chunk of sales/the market, some lovely, in fact some great pieces were produced, made with genuine hifi intent (think bigger, better compete mindset), great componentry, tech and electronics etc often not cheap at the time either.

    It's usually those higher-end pieces your 'sheep' are chasing, and more than often, IF they've done their homework, justifiably so, IMO of course.

    Some vintage high-end pieces were rare and expensive from the off so mad prices if found in good order today - thats life I guess.

    Other pieces whilst not cheap at the time, wernt / arnt particularly rare but can be had now for sensible money and again in my view are definitely worth pursuing simply because anything modern of same or similar level of build/spec quality is often either not really available today or will cost BIG bucks, often many times more than said vintage piece.

    Once you've made your mind up, done the homework and If you can then get the item of your interest for a 'reasonable' sum and have access to a decent tech to service and look it over, it's a no brainer in my experience
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2, Technics EPA-250 Tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge with Fritz Gyger S re-tip, Panzerholz plinth,
    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable - airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket, Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs with Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 377
    I'm Andre.

    Default

    But Homework generally equates to what other people have posted on forums, froms what i have read a massive percentage of it is bollox. But that is Sheep behaviour..

    Now if people are buying something like a Garrard '401' to use as originally used in say a SME '2000' plinth with SME '3009' no mods no nothing in which i recommend they should be used it will sound no better than the Garrard 'Zero 100' at a fraction of the price, infact the 'Zero 100' was more expensive in the day than a '401'. But Hi-Fi dudes want to Build mega plinths fit over priced modern arms & cartridges etc to make it into something else, this attraction is looked upon as an attractive high end product which will warrant a price tag for used units to match..

    Another one is all this Goldring/Lenco axing up & modifying, make me cringe. Utter lunacy imho.. Totally against the cutting up of these decks as i am the asking price for say a 'G88/99'

  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 3,816
    I'm Robert.

    Default

    Dont agree bro.

    In my experience if you look extensively, properly, certain recurring factors / points absolutely start to become apparent. Untold people / owners who have or have the item you're looking into cant be coincidentally saying the same thing, or bringing up a particular aspect, point, trait, issue or otherwise, by sheer chance in regard to that item - nah.

    You find out a lot by looking and doing your own home-work otherwise, yes you're likely a 'sheep', chasing and buying only because you've heard people say something is great and the one to have which is a mugs game.

    Don't know what else I can say.

    There is an attraction for vintage gear-clearly, often in regard to certain pieces, there's good reason for that.

    If you feel 'everyone' who pursues vintage gear is a sheep then I cant say anymore than I've already said, other than that's just not the case.
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2, Technics EPA-250 Tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge with Fritz Gyger S re-tip, Panzerholz plinth,
    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable - airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket, Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs with Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 5,177
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    I would have thought vintage kit buyers would broadly fall into one of two categories:

    1. Folk who recognise there were some incredibly well thought out and engineered high-end products made back then, just need some research to sort the wheat from the chaff. I expect Robert falls into this category.

    2. Nostalgia. Buying aspirational gear, which while not necessarily high-end was unobtainable at the time, or perhaps was owned and the buyer just wants the same gear again for old time's sake. That would be more like me, and I have considered putting together a second system that re-creates the set up that my friend's older brother had, which got me into it. Not really high end - turntable made by a company called ERA (French I think), a small 20 watt Trio integrated, and a pair of Dynaco speakers (Danish I think).

    If the people out there looking to profit from this nostalgia ask silly money for these items I'm perfectly prepared to not bother and spend my hard-earned elsewhere, so probably not a sheep
    Pining for the fjords? What kind of talk is that? And why did he fall flat on his back the minute I got him home?

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon 2M Black. Phono: Yaqin MS-22B CD: Densen Beat B400 Plus; Headphone/pre: Myryad Z40; Amp: Audion Silver Night 300b stereo
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def. Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini-1, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    Panasonic 42" plasma, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 377
    I'm Andre.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieGong View Post
    If you feel 'everyone' who pursues vintage gear is a sheep then I cant say anymore than I've already said, other than that's just not the case.
    Im not saying that. Im saying the sheepish behaviour is taking everyone down the same road with the same gear. A handful of items are used like clockwork again sheep behaviour. My point is they are ignoring other stuff that goes for peanuts or they more like want to ignore it cos they cannot axe it up with their fantasy mods that do fuck all to the sound in terms of improvement. But most likley they dont know about it. I feel that if Audio forums never existed etc prices of these things would be give away & none of this nonsence would be happening. Collectors would just collect what they want to for what an item was back then.. Yes ofc i have a chip on my shoulder with these prices & what happens to the stuff & ofc dealers, it stinks to high heavens, destroyed my ability to collect it as an innocent hobby, same goes with Records etc.. Put pay to the lot..

    I now have to move away from the hobby i once loved, use a bunch of cheap Hi-Fi that im not saying does not sound good enough cos it does but i would prefer something i liked better but as pointed out i cant.

    So there you go. People inability to think for themselves, Price of used gear, Abuse of vintage gear all wrapped up in one thread..


  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 377
    I'm Andre.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    I would have thought vintage kit buyers would broadly fall into one of two categories:

    1. Folk who recognise there were some incredibly well thought out and engineered high-end products made back then, just need some research to sort the wheat from the chaff.
    No more like turntable and such as so shit quality they see vintage as Battleship engineered but they also feel the sound is not to modern standards hence feel compelled to do anything possible to make it go away.. That is utter lunacy imho..

  8. #8
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Nottingham

    Posts: 508
    I'm Ian.

    Default

    People buy whatever they want for the reasons they have and market forces are what they are. Basically, humans are programmed to consume and we do like to own stuff.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2020

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 377
    I'm Andre.

    Default

    Obviously but im trying to make clear why, im sure im right with a few sugestions & its also reassuring to hear posts that show that its not just me.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 3,816
    I'm Robert.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Made in 1968 View Post
    Im not saying that. Im saying the sheepish behaviour is taking everyone down the same road with the same gear. A handful of items are used like clockwork again sheep behaviour. My point is they are ignoring other stuff that goes for peanuts or they more like want to ignore it cos they cannot axe it up with their fantasy mods that do fuck all to the sound in terms of improvement. But most likley they dont know about it. I feel that if Audio forums never existed etc prices of these things would be give away & none of this nonsence would be happening. Collectors would just collect what they want to for what an item was back then.. Yes ofc i have a chip on my shoulder with these prices & what happens to the stuff & ofc dealers, it stinks to high heavens, destroyed my ability to collect it as an innocent hobby, same goes with Records etc.. Put pay to the lot..

    I now have to move away from the hobby i once loved, use a bunch of cheap Hi-Fi that im not saying does not sound good enough cos it does but i would prefer something i liked better but as pointed out i cant.

    So there you go. People inability to think for themselves, Price of used gear, Abuse of vintage gear all wrapped up in one thread..

    Strong views and fair enough if that's how you feel, sounds like whatever it is really gets ya goat, I just dont think it's that bad, or that much of an 'issue'
    My System:
    Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
    Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2, Technics EPA-250 Tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge with Fritz Gyger S re-tip, Panzerholz plinth,
    CDP - Pioneer PD-91
    Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
    QED Silver Spiral speaker cable - airloc banana plugs
    Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket, Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs with Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses

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