Trade Input on AoS: Getting The Balance Right

[The Grand Wazoo]

We are all aware that there is a spectrum of views over the balance of content between trade input and that from normal members. It's a balance that is difficult to get right, and sometimes the rules are stretched and other times they are just plain broken. It bothers some people but not others.

With that then, I'd like to know where you stand on this. I'd like to hear your views and I'd be very grateful if they could be made calmly and dispassionately. This is a chance to have your voice heard but if anyone chooses to take the opportunity to 'have a go', then the delete button will be used without hesitation. Additionally, we will not have any finger pointing, or singling out of individuals in this excercise.

Also, please be very clear that this is not an opportunity to make AoS a non-trade forum. That is not going to happen because some of our trade members are exemplary and long may they continue to be so.

Please vote in the poll whether you take part in the discussion or not. But it would be good to hear your views on the subject, and that includes the views of our trade members.

The Poll will be anonymous.

[Joe]

It's a tricky one. It would be draconian, and probably counter-productive, to ban trade members from posting in non-trade areas, but recent events have shown that there's a thin line between advising prospective purchasers about your products (what they do, how much they cost, etc) and 'spamming' those products. But it's hard to avoid the impression that, of late, AoS has become increasingly dominated by discussions of particular products, with the manufacturers/distributors/retailers of those products 'enthusiatically' joining in.

Maybe the new guidelines on what can and can't be done with regard to products for review will help, but what's really needed is for some trade members to show a bit more restraint when their own products are under discussion, and/or to contribute more to discussions about products they don't actually make or sell.

[guy]

Also, please be very clear that this is not an opportunity to make AoS a non-trade forum. That is not going to happen because some of our trade members are exemplary and long may they continue to be so.

Spot on!
I think that it is a good idea to remind some that restraint in making the members aware of new products is in everybody's interest.

[NRG]

I think it's not the amount of 'trade content' but where and how that 'content' is posted that irks many folk....

[Effem]

Well, seeing as it was myself that apparently has started all this angst and navel gazing by some postings I have made, then I want to get my oar in at the earliest opportunity.

At any other time that someone has sent me anything to evaluate, I have always kept it private and confidential between myself and the person(s) that has sent the item to me. I have done this for the following reasons:

1). I am generally brutally honest in whatever I appraise, which means naturally there will be comments which would do great commercial harm if put into the public domain prematurely.

2). It then gives the person/s the opportunity to respond accordingly and make any changes if they find any merit in my criticisms, or dismiss them entirely.

3). Lastly and most importantly, if it is a prototype, then protocol dictates that the full product is then reviewed again.

All well and dandy, but with what is now known as the "SLIC Innovations Eclipse C" that has caused SO much controversy it was ME that broke all the rules, not David Brook at MCRU, so you can lay the blame squarely at me. Why did I do that? I will tell you why.

No need to repeat yet again the relationship between myself and cables - we will take that as a given to save time. Back in November of last year I was sent yet another "mystery cable" because it was not the first one sent to me, as there has been a series of them and not just from MCRU I might add, so no shocks or surprises there and I wasn't that fussed about yet another wanky wire to listen to.

What was the total shock and surprise was the sound I heard straight out of the packet that it came in and plugged into what many would deem my current humble system. This was no "tone control" I was listening to, this was no complicated set of balances and compromises formulated to please the audiophile ears, this was the real deal, this I knew instantly was the cable the me and probably the world has been waiting for. I know right now those that are reading this are thinking "yeah, right" and that is because you are riddled with prejudices and a completely closed mind. That is not my problem to deal with is it?

I sent an email to David Brook asking who, what, why and when about this mystery cable and all I was told was that it was a patented design from the inventor he happened to meet by pure accident. That was it, no construction details, no anticipated price, not even told where to look up the patent, not that it actually mattered because by then I was completely beguiled by this "mystery cable" and will admit to wanting to shout from the rooftops about it and rightly so in my opinion, so I asked David Brook if I could post my findings on AoS. Note, it was me asking, not David Brook telling - that is VERY important. I then typed out the analysis that you all saw back in November of last year. Nothing was added by David Brook, not a single syllable of it and I still stand by what I wrote 100% back then and also in the "revisited" thread recently closed. If it was just another cocktail of compromises cable design I wouldn't have uttered a single word about it.

Yes, your minds are indeed closed, because firstly you are automatically assuming this is JUST another cable "fad" and what is all the fuss about? Indeed, the "secret" of this cable's sound is so blindingly obvious and if your brain is stuck on the tramlines of resistance, capacitance and inductance parameters alone, it's obvious why you cannot see it and probably never will. I stumbled across the same problem years ago but i couldn't find a sensible answer to it. Well maybe I could have done, but be aware the inventor of the SLIC spent more money and years on the solution than I was prepared to throw at it. And people are whining about the price?????

It has caused controversy and division, so all I can say is GOOD, it's about time some apple carts are being upset so we do more than just grumble and gripe about the status quo. Banning all reviews with a manufacturer/dealer behind it is tantamount to gagging, so how do we get to hear about new these new innovations that deserve to be recognised?

Frank

[Joe]

Well, it's good to know that everyone except you has a closed mind.

Surely the point about any component or accessory is that its sound will be system-dependent, room-dependent, and user-dependent. What 'should' have happened IMO is that you should have posted your initial 'mystery cable revisted' post, then said, in effect: 'MCRU stocks this, so if you're interested, contact him', then left it to others to comment on/review the cable in their own good time without further input from yourself.

And I don't think anyone is suggesting banning reviews altogether; only that such reviews should be of items for which AoS members have shelled out for, rather than of 'freebies' or loan items, because the ultimate test of any opinion on hifi is 'would you spend your own money on one?'

[Effem]

Well, it's good to know that everyone except you has a closed mind.

Surely the point about any component or accessory is that its sound will be system-dependent, room-dependent, and user-dependent. What 'should' have happened IMO is that you should have posted your initial 'mystery cable revisted' post, then said, in effect: 'MCRU stocks this, so if you're interested, contact him', then left it to others to comment on/review the cable in their own good time without further input from yourself.

And I don't think anyone is suggesting banning reviews altogether; only that such reviews should be of items for which AoS members have shelled out for, rather than of 'freebies' or loan items, because the ultimate test of any opinion on hifi is 'would you spend your own money on one?'

If you need to look for an example of having a closed mind then you have found one. You.

The cable is neither system dependant or room dependant, so that is another poor excuse you have found to criticise. What makes you think I did one test in one room on one system only?

You accused me of "egging on" people that have bought the cable, so do I have to travel round the country now indoctrinating all those people into hearing what I hear? The notion is absurd, like the right of your input into the subject and if that offends I make no apologies.

It is people like you Joe that MAKE the circular arguments just for the sake of it.

The real heroes in this scenario are the inventor who should be lauded and the people that are actually listening to the cable's capabilities. Mr MCRU and me are just incidental.

[Gordon Steadman]

I
The cable is neither system dependant or room dependant

Sorry, thats a nonsense statement. Every component is one or the other. Its impossible to remove the rest of the bits and the room from the equation. I am, as you probably gather, a complete and utter sceptic when it comes to cables but I have no problem others being into what they like. However, this is a subjective forum and the sceptic's subjective view is as relevant as yours. Its the totally over the top evangelising that annoys.

Anyway I suspect this thread is not supposed to be about this.

[twickers]

I had no problems with Franks ( and everyone else ) enthusiasm for the cable, but now unfortunately Frank your arrogance is getting a bit too much.

[Joe]

If you need to look for an example of having a closed mind then you have found one. You.

The cable is neither system dependant or room dependant, so that is another poor excuse you have found to criticise. What makes you think I did one test in one room on one system only?

You accused me of "egging on" people that have bought the cable, so do I have to travel round the country now indoctrinating all those people into hearing what I hear? The notion is absurd, like the right of your input into the subject and if that offends I make no apologies.

It is people like you Joe that MAKE the circular arguments just for the sake of it.

The real heroes in this scenario are the inventor who should be lauded and the people that are actually listening to the cable's capabilities. Mr MCRU and me are just incidental.

Cool your boots, man.

I've had personal experience of trying out a cable that was praised to the skies on AoS and elsewhere , 'totally transformed the sound' 'better than anything at ten times the price' etc. I didn't like it. It wasn't just that it made no difference to the sound of my system, to my ears it made the system sound much worse that it had using a random set of cables that had been acquired over the years, or had come free with the kit. My conclusion was not that others were 'wrong' or had 'closed minds', just that whatever they were hearing was not matched by what I was hearing, so I sent the cables back and got a refund.