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Thread: Renovation of Celestion 66 Studio Monitors

  1. #41
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Hampshire, UK

    Posts: 3,662
    I'm Adam.

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    I generally leave grilles on the speakers I'm using as I find wobbling drive units too distracting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I'll sticky this thread...
    Dirty boy...

    Engineers: fixing problems you didn't know you had in ways you don't understand.

  2. #42
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    The Cheviots sound better with the grills on, I also find bare drivers distracting.

    Barbarian - I have only measured one x-over but the two 72uf Lytics on this board are 65 and 77uf.
    If these old caps were +/- 10% which was common, they are still in spec which is quite incredible for their age (presuming original).
    +5% yes they would be +/- just quoted the biggest possible variance from the original 72 if a 75 was used, the minus value is as you point out moving closer towards the correct figure.

    Just found out the dead sheet panels are out of stock for a week, so there will be a delay in fitting them, the Tweeters should have arrived by then.

  3. #43
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Yep, the replacement Tweeters arrived safely from California. They play music when connected to the crossover and sound the same, best as I can tell, they also measure exactly the same resistance which is great.

    The only thing stopping me from building up the one speaker I dismantled, is the bitumen panels and binding posts, which will take a bit longer to arrive.

    Done some initial work on the x-over design but this is very much a work in progress, I have seperated the Bass from the rest of the circuit, you couldn't fit it all on one board with the much larger caps. The Bass board will drop in where the stock item was located and use the same fixing points, the Mid/Tweeter board will go behind the Mid/Tweeter drivers and be fixed in exactly the same fashion, progress can be viewed via this link:

    http://www.jkwynn.co.uk///Project_Im.../66_X-Over.pdf

  4. #44
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Still waiting on bitumen panels, no progress for nearly three weeks now.

    I find this is the biggest time consumer on any project - waiting for bits to arrive.

  5. #45
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 1,058
    I'm Darren.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    I find this is the biggest time consumer on any project - waiting for bits to arrive.
    +1, currently killing time hoping that my new soldering iron will arrive today? Ordered it, resistors and some caps from Farnell yesterday, caps arrived via UPS this morning, resistors have literally just been posted through the door and I guess the iron's special delivery? I really hope it arrives as it's the last thing I need to partially recap (tweeter & mid) my 44's.

    What capacitors will you be using for yours, Axon True Caps on your PDF? I've ordered Jantzen Cross Caps from Europe Audio (http://www.europe-audio.com/) dirt cheap, ordered Monday morning arrived Wednesday morning .
    Darren.
    Listening Room.
    UNDER CONSTRUCTION
    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    Pre Amp. Croft Super Micro2. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks.
    Speakers. TBC

    Home Cinema.
    UNDER CONSTRUCTION
    DAC/Pre Amp. Denon AVC X3700H.
    BDP/Streamer. Panasonic DP-UB820EB / Apple TV4K.
    Display. Optoma UHD51 / DIY False Black Window Screen.
    Power Amps. 2 x Nakamichi AVP1.
    Front Speakers. DIY Baby Celestion Ditton 66. Surround Speakers. Celestion Ditton 11. Subwoofer. BK Electronics P12 300SB PR.

    Old Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  6. #46
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Hi Darren

    My current thinking is Axon True Cap for the 72uf (2 x 36uf) and Sonicap Gen I for the rest, but still reading up on what other folks have found works. The Sonicaps seem to have been used in a lot of the 66 recaps and I like them a lot in x-overs though not as coupling caps in my Phono stage. There seems to be various opinions on which is best, two 36uf to give exactly the required 72uf or a single cap approximately 72uf eg one position at 75uf and one at 68uf, the point being a single cap is better than a pair? Still thinking about that.

    I use Europe Audio a lot, get my Jantzen coils their.
    Jantzen Cross Caps don't come in the required values for mine.

  7. #47
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 1,058
    I'm Darren.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    There seems to be various opinions on which is best, two 36uf to give exactly the required 72uf or a single cap approximately 72uf eg one position at 75uf and one at 68uf, the point being a single cap is better than a pair? Still thinking about that.
    Yes, there are plenty of options for the 72uf, I did consider ordering 33uf & 39uf Jantzen's but Alan seem pretty adamant this is a compromise and there's no significant price difference from 36uf Axon's which seem to be the popular choice. Plus there are other components I want to buy from Part Connexion (e.g. Mills resistors, ordered Welwyn's for now) so gives me the excuse to order everything at once. What capacitors are you looking at for the 75/68 combo?

    I'm picking up another pair of 44's next weekend so this will give me a benchmark to compare the modified pair to (I still plan on trying the SEAS tweeter), then they'll go on to be the rear speakers for the home cinema (providing I can shift the room around to accommodate them ).
    Darren.
    Listening Room.
    UNDER CONSTRUCTION
    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    Pre Amp. Croft Super Micro2. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks.
    Speakers. TBC

    Home Cinema.
    UNDER CONSTRUCTION
    DAC/Pre Amp. Denon AVC X3700H.
    BDP/Streamer. Panasonic DP-UB820EB / Apple TV4K.
    Display. Optoma UHD51 / DIY False Black Window Screen.
    Power Amps. 2 x Nakamichi AVP1.
    Front Speakers. DIY Baby Celestion Ditton 66. Surround Speakers. Celestion Ditton 11. Subwoofer. BK Electronics P12 300SB PR.

    Old Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  8. #48
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

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    Wow that will be some system when you sort it. No need for a Sub, I bet.

    Not got as far as thinking about a make for a single 75 or 68uf cap but what ever they will be BIG and costly.

    Alan seems to recomend single caps as ideal with multiples of the same value/make as next best, with multiples of different values as a last resort.

    I'm trying to develop an opinion on which will be the best compromise:

    A) Two identical caps giving the correct value.

    B) One cap of approximately the correct value

    Couple of things to consider.
    If the approximate value part happens to be on the wrong side of its manufacturing tolerance, is the level of discrepancy acceptable.
    What effect will using a pair of identical caps have on the ESR simulating resistor value? As it doesn't seem to be linked soley to the total capacitance value? Alan seems very busy and hasn't made any sugestions as yet.

    These parts are quite expensive so I will not be rushing into it and shipping costs/time have to be factored in.

  9. #49
    Join Date: Oct 2013

    Location: Wrexham

    Posts: 1,058
    I'm Darren.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    Wow that will be some system when you sort it. No need for a Sub, I bet.
    Yes, I'll still have a sub (will be investigating sealed as I have a ported sub which makes placement difficult) I even have it on for music may not be strictly stereo but I like it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    Alan seems very busy and hasn't made any sugestions as yet.
    No I've not heard from him recently, he replied to one of my posts, but not the last one concerning resistors. I couldn't get a WP4S in 1.8R so wanted to know if I could order a W22, he had suggested this in a previous post I really just wanted clarification as the Mills is 500v and the W22 is 200v, as the WP4S is 100v I guess this is fine (and I've ordered them anyway) but as you're more than aware I do like clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwin View Post
    These parts are quite expensive so I will not be rushing into it and shipping costs/time have to be factored in.
    Agreed, I'm reluctant to follow in your footsteps with the Inductors due to the cost implication, are you planning on rewiring / if so with what? I was thinking of rewiring with speaker cable (Van Damme Blue 2.5).

    Well no soldering iron delivered today, so I'll be under house arrest again tomorrow .
    Darren.
    Listening Room.
    UNDER CONSTRUCTION
    Turn Table. Garrard 401, Reso Mat, 2 Tier Slate Plinth, DIY Hadcock GH242, Nick G modded Lentek, Denon DL-103.
    Pre Amp. Croft Super Micro2. Power Amps Quad 405 Mono Blocks.
    Speakers. TBC

    Home Cinema.
    UNDER CONSTRUCTION
    DAC/Pre Amp. Denon AVC X3700H.
    BDP/Streamer. Panasonic DP-UB820EB / Apple TV4K.
    Display. Optoma UHD51 / DIY False Black Window Screen.
    Power Amps. 2 x Nakamichi AVP1.
    Front Speakers. DIY Baby Celestion Ditton 66. Surround Speakers. Celestion Ditton 11. Subwoofer. BK Electronics P12 300SB PR.

    Old Gallery. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...-of-the-70%92s

  10. #50
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Carlisle - UK

    Posts: 1,956
    I'm Ken.

    Default

    Darren - Yes I will be re wiring in fact some of the wire is in the same order I'm waiting on for bitumen panals (Wilmslow Audio).

    They have my other items in stock but as its the bitumen panels I will be using first I told them to ship it all in one hit.

    I am using Black Rhodium "Twirl" from binding posts to the two x-over Boards, I will be putting the bass filter on a seperate board due to the space needed for all the large replacement caps. This type of cable will also run from x-over to bass driver.

    For the Mid/Tweeter x-over to drivers I will be using Black Rhodium "Twist" this is similar to the "Twirl" but smaller conductor.

    These cables are tinned stranded copper (like the stock wire) with a thickish Silicon primary insulation, the two conductors are loosely twisted together to help reject interference and have no outer jacket. They are very flexible, withstand a lot of heat (soldering) and the silicon should help insulate from in-cabinet sound vibrations.

    Rexton tried the "Twist" as a main speaker cable from the Amp and had very good things to say about it.

    "Twist" retails at about £3.50/M and "Twirl" about £13.50/M if memory serves, I need 2m of each cable initially for std x-over and will need another 1m of "Twirl" when I go split boards. It seems a large price difference for a very small change with the two types but I do think the internal wiring is important, especially from binding posts to boards, why have an expensive main cable with a piece of bell wire as a link to the x-over, just doesn't make sense to me.
    You could just use "Twist" throught, its conductors are thicker than the stock cable and it's a good price.

    The cable is directional and marked at each end if you believe in that one

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