"Big - Old - Legacy - Separates"

[Marco]

Steve,

Me too

In terms of wine, this discussion is like having an argument with someone who considers a Beaujolais Nouveau superior to St Emilion Grand Cru Classé!

Marco.

P.S Ashley, have you read the Audiocom thread I referred you to?

[Ashley James]

Not at all if you accept that, as you said, no hi fi system is perfect, therefore they are all doing damage to the music they are playing. All I'm saying is that it's relatively easy to identify and eliminate quite a bit of this damage by designing a self contained system that is more elegant technically than separates. The cost benefit is coincidental.

Where we differ is in the idea that distortions can somehow be "crafted" to be more "musically involving"; They can't and they are often unpredictable, they may also favour one type of music and the expense of another. IMO it's a lack of understanding of this fact that's pissed off so many people and turned hi fi enthusiasts into objects of ridicule outside their own hallowed corridors. I suspect many reading do not really know what is a good sound.

We have friends on the Pro Audio side who visit us to listen and comment and others that send us recordings to see what we think - We're much closer to the ideals than most hi fi enthusiasts or than we are given credit for. We even have Producers in Nashville and Miami using ADM9s and other our older speakers or amplifiers.

Marco you aren't far away so you should come and see us, I think you'd be surprised because you have a potentially excellent pair of speakers. I'm not sure about the rest though except the Technics which at one time was in service with 5000 Broadcast Authorities.

[Mr Ed]

If I may be so bold, Marco, may I suggest that Lambrini might be a more appropriate tipple...

Ed.

[Marco]

If I may be so bold, Marco, may I suggest that Lambrini might be a more appropriate tipple...

Ed.

Marco.

[Marco]

Ashley,

I will answer you, but only when you stop avoiding the question I asked you earlier about Audiocom. I'm sorry, but I'm not like 'normal' people who let folk away with avoiding questions

When I ask a question I don't stop asking until it's answered!

I await your reply with interest

Marco.

[Marco]

Not at all if you accept that, as you said, no hi fi system is perfect, therefore they are all doing damage to the music they are playing. All I'm saying is that it's relatively easy to identify and eliminate quite a bit of this damage by designing a self contained system that is more elegant technically than separates. The cost benefit is coincidental.

I don't doubt there's merit in your approach to system building - indeed it will address the many compatibility issues that exist with assembling separates systems from different manufacturers; that's not to say though that the rewards aren't there for building a carefully thought out and synergistically matched separates system such as others and I own. However, some of the comparisons you're making with ipods, basic modern DACs, etc, compared to very specialist hi-end equipment is a tad ludicrous, I have to say, and it is making you look rather silly.

Where we differ is in the idea that distortions can somehow be "crafted" to be more "musically involving"; They can't and they are often unpredictable, they may also favour one type of music and the expense of another.

Are you denying that an electronics designer can't, through judicious component selection and implementation, voice equipment to his or her tastes?

That's what I was referring to earlier by "crafting" (your word) or creating your own brand of distortions.

IMO it's a lack of understanding of this fact that's pissed off so many people and turned hi fi enthusiasts into objects of ridicule outside their own hallowed corridors. I suspect many reading do not really know what is a good sound.

I agree with your last sentence but don't assume that they're members of this forum. As for "objects of ridicule", personally, I don't care one iota what anyone thinks of me whom I don't know or whose opinions I don't respect.

We have friends on the Pro Audio side who visit us to listen and comment and others that send us recordings to see what we think - We're much closer to the ideals than most hi fi enthusiasts or than we are given credit for. We even have Producers in Nashville and Miami using ADM9s and other our older speakers or amplifiers.

Good for you and I hope you get even more professionals using your equipment, as it is a lucrative market to be in. However my experience of some people on the Pro Audio side is that they wouldn't know what a good sound was if it jumped up and bit them on the bum! So don't presume their comments have more kudos.

Marco you aren't far away so you should come and see us, I think you'd be surprised because you have a potentially excellent pair of speakers. I'm not sure about the rest though except the Technics which at one time was in service with 5000 Broadcast Authorities.

Just "potentially" excellent? In what way could you 'improve' them, then? The Technics is excellent, as you seem to realise. I can assure you that the Sony transport & DAC and Croft preamp are none too shabby either

I'll tell you what, Ashley, if you're supremely confident that I would be impressed with the ADM9s through a computer set-up, and consider it perhaps better than what I'm using just now then why not come up and demonstrate it to me? I'm not fussed about coming all that way to listen to a product I suspect isn't really my cup of tea. It's up to you to convince me differently!

I'll buy YOU lunch and we can do a direct A/B comparison between your ADM9 set-up and my system with an ancient CD player, 1970s turntable and speakers and 'outdated' valve amps. We'll play lots of different music and have a good time, I'm sure. Then I'll post a thread on the forum detailing the results of our findings. It will be fair and square. If I'm really impressed with the ADM9s (and the rest of your set-up) I'll wax lyrical about it, which will I'm sure generate much positive publicity for your product, but equally if I'm disappointed I'll wax lyrical about that, too! You can of course also express your opinion of the outcome.

Are you confident enough in your product to accept my offer?

Marco.

[Ashley James]

1. No it won't the electronics in iPods matches anything in hi end.

2. Yes I am, if you don't do it right, it's wrong and you can't predict how the problem will sound.

3. Hi Fi has been the but of jokes for years and if it's appeared in the broadsheets or whatever, it's because some prat thinks his CD's sound better because they've spent the night in the fridge or some such twaddle.

4. Hi fi enthusiasts often make critical comments about people on the Pro side and I think they are misplaced, we've dealt with many over the years, all have been dedicated to pure and true sound and most have much better ears than hi fi people. Whenever we do comparisons and ask for observations, they are always miles ahead. There are fruit cakes but they are outnumbered 10 to 1 the musicality brigade.
AVI is very much old school BBC where sound quality is concerned.

There's no question in my mind that low powered, clipping amplifiers have held back high quality sound reproduction for years in the UK. People seem unaware of just how far things have progressed and this has to be factor.

5. I haven't got time to spend a day up there (I shouldn't be typing this now) but if ever you are able, I'm sure you'll find out more than you expected.

[Marco]

1. No it won't the electronics in iPods matches anything in hi end.

That's utter bollocks, Ashley! Have you read the Audiocom thread yet? I did ask you to read it before replying to me again!!

Before I respond to the rest of your post will you please have the courtesy to read what is written in the Audiocom thread regarding the components in my Sony DAS-R1. I have also asked Mark Bartlett to comment.

Cheers!

Marco.

P.S Nice cop out with the visit. I suspected as much

[jcbrum]

Marco, I meant the transports in CDp's are fragile, which they are. I had a string of replacements in my Studer-Revox CDp, and I expect your sony will misbehave sometime soon.

Anyway if you've got the files backed up onto networked storage like a time machine or ATV, then you don't need the CDp ever again.

I was very glad to get rid of a large unattractive nerdy techy box from my sitting room.

CD players are the spawn of the devil, and if we had all been able to afford computers to play our digifiles in the '80's, when they replaced vinyl disks, the damn things would never have been born.

We now have the technology to play the digital files properly, as they were originally intended, instead of the ridiculous contraption which is a CD player.

I don't know whether I have explained my position on CD players adequately, please ask if you want me to elucidate on anything.

regards JC

[Marco]

jc,

Marco, I meant the transports in CDp's are fragile, which they are.

Sorry, but it wasn't exactly clear what you were referring to as "fragile".

I had a string of replacements in my Studer-Revox CDp, and I expect your sony will misbehave sometime soon.

Don't count on it! Care to have a bet? And if it does, I've got a spare mech which Mark from Audiocom will fit. I think I'll probably have grey hair and a big bushy beard before that happens, though!

Anyway if you've got the files backed up onto networked storage like a time machine or ATV, then you don't need the CDp ever again.

I'm very interested in hi-end computer audio, but it will NOT replace my Sony CDP - it will be used together with it.

I was very glad to get rid of a large unattractive nerdy techy box from my sitting room.

Fortunately I have a dedicated music/hi-fi room that's separate from my sitting room so concerns of that nature are irrelevant.

CD players are the spawn of the devil, and if we had all been able to afford computers to play our digifiles in the '80's, when they replaced vinyl disks, the damn things would never have been born.

I agree with you when it comes to 95% of the CD players made today, but not the best ones from, say, the late 80s to the mid 90s. That's when CD players sounded 'right'! They were still not as good as top-notch vinyl set-up, though.

We now have the technology to play the digital files properly, as they were originally intended, instead of the ridiculous contraption which is a CD player.

Perhaps that's the case in the best computer audio set-ups, but a high quality Red Book CD player still has much to offer. I know because I own one!

I don't know whether I have explained my position on CD players adequately, please ask if you want me to elucidate on anything.

Nope. You're coming across loud and clear. It's just that I disagree with 95% of what you're saying!!

Marco.