+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: "Your old records rescued. Brand new records made."

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 90,066
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Question "Your old records rescued. Brand new records made."

    Link shamelessly stolen from pfm:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...inyl-records-m

    Does anyone think that this process is actually solving something worthwhile? Me thinks not...

    Marco.
    Proud anti-establishment/elite 'heretic', motivated to expose widespread Establishment bias, cover-ups and mind-control!

  2. #2
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Charente, France

    Posts: 3,541
    I'm Nodrog.

    Default

    Whilst it doesn't seem so, maybe the proof will be in the pudding. As I assume that most modern vinyl starts out as a digital file before its cut, it may be OK. Depends on the quality of the software and the cutting machine presumably. It looks as if it just another added layer to introduce some distortion though.

    I won't be one of those backing him although anything that seeks to encourage the use of vinyl should be lauded.

  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Somewhere

    Posts: 1,864
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    There is nothing new here. In fact reissue labels have been digitizing and cleaning up LPs and acetates for years were this is the only surviving source. Problem is that you end up with a digitally sourced vinyl so the all analogue purity of the original is lost. Now if someone could fix scratches in an all analogue chain that would be groundbreaking. For 'one off' restorations this is going to be expensive and only economic for rare collectables - even then collectors will pay more for the scratched original than the fixed copy.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: East Anglia UK

    Posts: 1,219
    I'm Marc.

    Default

    Sketchy,

    They don't specify the source turntable / arm / cart combo, they don't specify what A/D they're using, nor mention what sample rate or bit depth they're going to use. 300 for specialist software seems ambitious; as to do it really well they're going to need some Cedar gear (not cheap last time I looked), there's no justification as to why there's a valve stage being chucked in there (it's meant to be a repair not a remaster ie the focus should be on sonic purity not 'character' - I know 'good valve gear' blah blah, it's still an unneccessary stage of processing).

    Now fair enough the project seems to be more concentrated on the lathe but GIGO at the end of the day.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 90,066
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rothchild View Post
    ...there's no justification as to why there's a valve stage being chucked in there (it's meant to be a repair not a remaster ie the focus should be on sonic purity not 'character' - I know 'good valve gear' blah blah, it's still an unneccessary stage of processing).
    That presumes (wrongly in my considerable experience), Marc, that valve gear possesses no other sonic function than to superimpose its "character" on the music signal. What if the recording engineer considers instead that the use of valves helps preserve sonic (more importantly musical) purity, rather than dilute it?

    The fact is, some of the finest (read as most real/lifelike sounding) recordings of music I've ever heard were produced without a single piece of silicon or digital equipment in sight!

    Marco.
    Proud anti-establishment/elite 'heretic', motivated to expose widespread Establishment bias, cover-ups and mind-control!

  6. #6
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 26,359
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Seems to me that if you have a record that is rare but unplayable it won't be worth much because of poor condition and although this process will make a playable copy of it the copy will not be worth anything like the value of a playable original. Or anything like what it costs to make it.

    Plus it is going through an A-D loop so if 'analogue purity' is your concern that is shot too.

    So you might as well just buy a replacement vinyl copy or just get the CD and have done with it. Either will be a lot cheaper than this method and just as effective.

    And for those reasons, I'm out.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Sony SCD XB790QS* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  7. #7
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 26,359
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    The fact is, some of the finest (read as most real/lifelike sounding) recordings of music I've ever heard were produced without a single piece of silicon or digital equipment in sight!

    Marco.
    O/T I know but you are assuming that these recordings would have been worse if they were made on purely solid state equipment and there are no grounds to make that assumption since no solid state version exists to compare. If it did you might consider it to be more musically realistic than the recording that used valves. I suspect the reason those recordings sound so realistic is nothing to do with the valves.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Sony SCD XB790QS* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  8. #8
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: East Anglia UK

    Posts: 1,219
    I'm Marc.

    Default

    You have an amp that inverts the phase of it's signal, and this is good because fewer stages are necessarily better than more stages (at least that's how it was justified when we discussed it). How is this any different? I did acknowledge the 'valves dont' distort' argument*, but I fear you've missed my point - For a restoration and preservation project the fewer stages the better.

    *My view may be skewed by the particular picture they've used to illustrate it, that UA box is known as a character device (butto be fair there are very few pro-audio valve devices that are pitched on being clean and transparent) so they may have something else in mind but it doesn't.

    I would be surprised if you could confidently find a record made after about 1972 that you can be sure has no silicon in the signal path and (apart from niche recordings such as those made at Toerag) much made after about 1983 that didn't have some aspect of digital in it.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 90,066
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rothchild View Post
    You have an amp that inverts the phase of it's signal, and this is good because fewer stages are necessarily better than more stages (at least that's how it was justified when we discussed it). How is this any different? I did acknowledge the 'valves dont' distort' argument*, but I fear you've missed my point - For a restoration and preservation project the fewer stages the better.
    Yes, the fewer stages the better, *providing* that the ones employed fulfil the desired criteria....

    I fully understood your point, Marc, but unfortunately within it I could sense a distinct negative connotation that 'valves automatically = euphonic coloration', and when I sense that type of misinformation is being portrayed, I will always seek to stamp it out...

    *My view may be skewed by the particular picture they've used to illustrate it, that UA box is known as a character device (butto be fair there are very few pro-audio valve devices that are pitched on being clean and transparent) so they may have something else in mind but it doesn't.
    I would only ever advocate the use of valves in the recording or playback chain when doing so is advantageous (in terms of preserving sonic/musical purity), never merely to apply a 'euphonic bandage'.

    I would be surprised if you could confidently find a record made after about 1972 that you can be sure has no silicon in the signal path and (apart from niche recordings such as those made at Toerag) much made after about 1983 that didn't have some aspect of digital in it.
    Sure, and so it's no coincidence then that the majority of my best sounding records were either produced before that date or were recorded after that using top-notch valve/analogue technology from a previous era!

    Marco [who's currently listening to a 1958 vinyl recording of Dvorak's 'New World' Symphony (Scherzo Capriccioso), by the Berlin Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, on EMI, that sounds simply stunning - and in a way, in terms of achieving musical realism, that no digital recording I own, or those in my collection produced from recording equipment using transistors, can emulate].
    Proud anti-establishment/elite 'heretic', motivated to expose widespread Establishment bias, cover-ups and mind-control!

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 90,066
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Martin,

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    O/T I know but you are assuming that these recordings would have been worse if they were made on purely solid state equipment and there are no grounds to make that assumption since no solid state version exists to compare. If it did you might consider it to be more musically realistic than the recording that used valves. I suspect the reason those recordings sound so realistic is nothing to do with the valves.
    Of course no-one can prove whether or not if solid-state equipment existed then that it would've improved the results obtained. However, based on my considerable experience to date of comparing the best of recordings using either technology, experience suggests SS equipment is unlikely to have improved matters - at best merely made it different.

    That the recordings I'm referring to sound so realistic will have been primarily to do with the process, rather than the equipment used to make the recordings, not to mention the skills of the engineers at the time. However, valve microphones and mixing desks have a way of recording music that, in my opinion, contributes significantly to how realistic that recorded music sounds.

    Marco.
    Proud anti-establishment/elite 'heretic', motivated to expose widespread Establishment bias, cover-ups and mind-control!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast



 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •