Adventures in computers as transports

[Stratmangler]

I've been using a SB3/TC 7510 combo as digital source for a good while now, and to be honest cannot envisage returning to using silver beer mats as source material now, at least past the first ripping stage.

There have been some head scratching times along the way, such as finding the tools to extract the the tracks from DVD-Audio discs or HDCD discs along the way, but on the whole I'm very satisfied with the way my SB3/TC 7510 combo dishes out the music.

The SB3 is stock, albeit with the notorious Maplin PSU, and the TC 7510 has had the full Mod 21 stuff done (by myself, according to the pdf files that Stan has kindly posted links for), the TC7510 also powered by another of the afore-mentioned Maplin PSU's.

The thing to bear in mind with the SB3 (or the receiver) thing is that the unit will deliver 24/48 data max to any external DAC. Recent developments in the Squeezecenter client will resample music data of higher sample rate (ie 24/96 or 24/192) at the server side of this - if you run SB3 then the max you will get out of it will be 24/48, a Transporter will handle 24/96 quite happily.

However a Transporter costs a lot of wonga - SB3 + decent DAC around 1/3 of the Transporter price.

The only real downside to the computer audio experience is that HDD's can & will fail at some point, and definitely need to be backed up fairly regularly (and you can guarantee that the backups have not been frequent enough).

The big plus with going SB3/DAC route is that the (serving) PC's audio engines do not become part of the equation - the processing of Squeezecenter is kept to the bare minimum, and is pretty consistent.

Just my thoughts.

Chris

[Stratmangler]

As an addendum to my last post - avoid MP3 and use FLAC instead. Squeezecenter/SB3 handles FLAC natively - not all computer based media players do.

Chris

[Radiotron]

[...]I find compressed audio exceedingly dull and boring played on a Mac, and timing is all over the place. The same is true when using internet radio or Spotify for example, whereas I can happily run Spotify under Wine in Ubuntu and it sounds fine - but any mac - with correct Audio MIDI settings, no DSP switched on, no resampling or anything else that can damage the sound, needs uncompressed audio to sound good. This makes me very sad as this is the setup I'd really like to have as my main front end.[...]

What would those correct Audio MIDI settings be? 16/44.1? I've noticed that it's preset at 24bits by default. Thanks.

[nb2]

I still use a laptop to run Squeezecenter for my Squeezebox and TC-7520
I didn't carefully compared TC-7520 through usb and Squeezebox TC-7520 through ethernet yet.
(I plan to do it, but it takes some time to make that seriously, and I'm very satisfied with the squeezebox).
I don't really want a real PC near my system (too big, ugly, noise ...)
I don't want a NAS because if you are in trouble with Squeezecenter, it is much easier to have a screen, a keyboard, a mouse, and a real operating system.

My next step should be
My Squeezebox + dac (I will probably take a high end one, TC-7520 is not a big enough improvement for me)
Netbook PC (it is silent, cheap, powerful enough for squeezecenter, especially with SSD disk and no fan)
Music on a silent usb external disk connected to the netbook.

Actually I see the netbook as a big silent remote.

[Labarum]

Actually I see the netbook as a big silent remote.

I use a Samsung Q210 to run Squeezecentre, as a remote to the SB£ in the lounge and the Boom in the kitchen, and for lazy surfing and emailing as I listen to the SB3 or watch the TV (the Virgin Cable box also drives the Standac).

The Samsung Q210 has a 12 in screen, runs Vista and has a DVD drive and an HDMI out, so I can play it through the TV. I have the base moel Q210.

I used to have Squeezecenter on the study PC, but transferred it to the laptop prior to a 7 week trip to Cyprus, and there (on the laptop) it has stayed.

And I am still flabbergasted that you don't reckon significant the difference between an SB3 by itself and with a Standac. The SB3 by itself is dull and lifeless - Great to play though a high street electrical shop mini-stack, but not good for anything serious.

[nb2]

And I am still flabbergasted that you don't reckon significant the difference between an SB3 by itself and with a Standac. The SB3 by itself is dull and lifeless - Great to play though a high street electrical shop mini-stack, but not good for anything serious.

It depends on what you call significant.
Once I accidently left my amplifier on the input connected to the Squeezebox analog output instead of the input connected to the TC-7520
It took me some time to figure out it was may be not as good as usual ...
For me, this is the best test you can make ...

When my old cd player died, I replaced it with a cheaper one (waiting for computer based system)
That was what I call a night and day difference, huge step back.
You obviously notice it in the very first seconds, even if you don't pay attention.
Nothing compared to the (existing but in my opinion small) difference between SB3 and TC-7520
I tried it with my dealer, and we agreed that the TC-7520 is somewhere in the Cambridge Dac Magic league.
Not in the 1000 euros dacs league.
Which is a good and normal performance you can reasonably expect, and be satisfied with

[lovejoy]

What would those correct Audio MIDI settings be? 16/44.1? I've noticed that it's preset at 24bits by default. Thanks.

For the most part yes. If you're like me, then the vast majority of your audio will have been sourced from CD. I always stuck to 16/44 to ensure that no internal resampling was taking place.

This was a bit of a hangover from iTunes version 7 which had a software bug in the resampler and the way around it was to make sure your output was set to the sampling frequency/bit depth of your recordings. This bug has now been fixed but considering the tiny amount of 24/48 or 24/96 recordings I have, if I want to listen to those, I'll just go and manually switch to that output in Audio MIDI settings as and when.

It has been said that in iTunes 8, the resampler actually does a very good job so it would be safe to permanently leave Audio MIDI settings to output 24-bit 96KHz. I've not really felt the need to try this with my CD derived content though.

[lovejoy]

I tried it with my dealer, and we agreed that the TC-7520 is somewhere in the Cambridge Dac Magic league.
Not in the 1000 euros dacs league.
Which is a good and normal performance you can reasonably expect, and be satisfied with

With the greatest of respect to the dealer involved - He would say that. They're not selling Beresford DACs and they certainly wouldn't say that a £150 product beats any of theirs costing £1000.

I know my subjective opinion is as invalid to you as anyone else's, but I would beg to differ. I've spent 10 years in good quality hi-fi retail and I could count the amount of digital products I heard in that time that sound better than my 7520 on one hand. Every single one of those products commanded at least a 4 figure sum.

One thing we might not have touched on is to ask what digital interconnect you are using between your SB3 and your 7520? The only reason I can think of (barring your amp and speakers not being revealing enough to show you the differences - which they should be) is the quality of your coax/optical cable.

I noticed in an earlier thread you said you found no differences between optical and coax.. Which cables are you using? I ask this because when I first bought my 7510 I already had what I thought was a decent optical cable to go between my Mac and DAC. It was an IXOS cable I spent a bit of money on a few years previously, but Stan's cable was very reasonably priced and I needed a spare.

I was extremely glad I bought it, as my IXOS cable made the 7510 sound unbearably bright and hard. The difference between that and Stan's optical cable was astounding and if I hadn't been able to compare the two side by side, I'd never have thought such a difference possible.

I'd say if you haven't got one already, you owe it to your 7520 to feed it with the best quality digital interconnect you can find.

[lovejoy]

To get back on thread, I've been doing some more playing around with Ubuntu over the weekend. I seem to have discovered just the piece of software I need for music playback. It's called Elisa. It's very much like Front Row on the Mac. The thing I've been missing is having an app where I can navigate my music via remote control and see it on a screen across the room. Elisa addresses all of this and looks rather fine - very much like Front Row in fact.

Along with that I have been playing with an app called Jack - A bit like the linux equivalent of ASIO, albeit with many more configuration options. A bit early to provide any definitive feedback on it at the moment, but as it stands I could spout hyperbole about it all morning. That's how mindblowingly good it was all sounding over the weekend, and I hadn't even drunk much ;-).

I think I might just have found the setup I'm going to stick with - That fills me with no end of joy.

[DaveK]

Hi Rich,
Please keep us posted - I for one am very interested in this sort of application - sounds good (no pun intended )