+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 43 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 428

Thread: Valve amps - do measurements tell it all?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Apr 2013

    Location: Granes - Haut Vallee de l'aude - EU

    Posts: 2,831
    I'm Richard.

    Default Valve amps - do measurements tell it all?

    Saw Bob's post on another thread and thought "you've been talking to my mate" followed by "you're gonna be in sh1t for saying it like that"

    So - to move the topic to a thread of its own where it belongs, be rude about valve amplifiers here.

    I would start by noting that my mate, the arch-objectivist, Mr measurement himself, and all solid state, would concede that there is more to life than measurement. Indeed - one of the reasons I have got him interested in a hifi design again is because he is fed up with designing professional equipment where measurements are all that matters.

    And he commented that Quad you loved was no way to design an amp by starting with class B and all its distortions, and then correcting it.

    Just a quickie to get us going

  2. #2
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

    Default

    the hilighted part i have some sympathy with, however, there are a lot of solid state and valve amplifiers out there with class B output stages that do indeed sound terrible, but a few that sound very listen able, so,[imho] its not just about the output stage configuration, and its set current draw as far as an amp being musically satisfying...
    A...
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldpinkman View Post
    Saw Bob's post on another thread and thought "you've been talking to my mate" followed by "you're gonna be in sh1t for saying it like that"

    So - to move the topic to a thread of its own where it belongs, be rude about valve amplifiers here.

    I would start by noting that my mate, the arch-objectivist, Mr measurement himself, and all solid state, would concede that there is more to life than measurement. Indeed - one of the reasons I have got him interested in a hifi design again is because he is fed up with designing professional equipment where measurements are all that matters.

    And he commented that Quad you loved was
    no way to design an amp by starting with class B and all its distortions, and then correcting it.
    Just a quickie to get us going
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  3. #3
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: London

    Posts: 309
    I'm Bob.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldpinkman View Post
    Saw Bob's post on another thread and thought "you've been talking to my mate" followed by "you're gonna be in sh1t for saying it like that"

    So - to move the topic to a thread of its own where it belongs, be rude about valve amplifiers here.

    I would start by noting that my mate, the arch-objectivist, Mr measurement himself, and all solid state, would concede that there is more to life than measurement. Indeed - one of the reasons I have got him interested in a hifi design again is because he is fed up with designing professional equipment where measurements are all that matters.

    And he commented that Quad you loved was no way to design an amp by starting with class B and all its distortions, and then correcting it.

    Just a quickie to get us going
    Oh Mr Pink, you really are a diamond chap. Believe it or not it was never my intention to appear rude and I still can’t see how I was. I do agree that measurements are not everything. I have yet to meet a person who can confidently tell the difference between a distortion factor of 0.01% and 0.001%. Having said that some measurements are more important than others, I’m talking about damping factor. Valve amps, even OTL designs have a very poor damping factor. If you are driving a stiff paper cone with low loss surround then this is not as apparent as when driving a modern speakers with high loss surrounds. High loss surrounds mean that an amplifier needs to do all the work of bringing the cone back to rest (overcoming reverse current). Transistor amps are far superior at this and that is a fact that can be measured and heard.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2013

    Location: Granes - Haut Vallee de l'aude - EU

    Posts: 2,831
    I'm Richard.

    Default

    So no issues with preamps and phono stages?

  5. #5
    Join Date: Nov 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 756
    I'm paul.

    Default

    What is it with you Richard ? why don't you just take up wrestling it would keep you fit as well, far better than typing
    Seriously though what do you consider an adequate damping factor I cant recall the figures at present but I have heard atmasphere valve otls that could drive a diesel locomotive
    nevermind stiff paper cones (being a esl fan cant think why you would want to).
    Paul
    ps Bob I could not find the specs on a 606 to find a comparative amp, so no munching yet
    Paul

  6. #6
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Charente, France

    Posts: 3,531
    I'm Nodrog.

    Default

    Ask any good designer and they will tell you that they can design an amp to sound good and measure well using either valves or transistors. I don't believe one is superior in principle to the other.

    Having said that, I have always preferred valve amps when it comes to listening to music and reckon that anyone who prefers Trannies must be cloth eared

  7. #7
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

    Posts: 1,399
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    between a distortion factor of 0.01% and 0.001%
    If the 0.001% was all second harmonic and the 0.01% was all 9th and 7th, then I think you will
    Nick.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: London

    Posts: 309
    I'm Bob.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lurcher View Post
    If the 0.001% was all second harmonic and the 0.01% was all 9th and 7th, then I think you will
    Nick you naughty boy. I was talking like for like and I think you know that.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Difficult to get a sand and a glass amp with like for like distortion spectra methinks..
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  10. #10
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Speaking for myself, I've yet to hear a solid state amp equal what the very best valve amps I've heard do.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 43 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •